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Did Mary Jane Kelly Really Exist?

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  • #46
    Excuse me, Captain Barnett, your wife rang. I told her you were in the Marigold Tea Rooms with Ms Arif.


    Regards


    Pike

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
      Excuse me, Captain Barnett, your wife rang. I told her you were in the Marigold Tea Rooms with Ms Arif.


      Regards


      Pike
      I see myself as more of a Walker than a Main waring.

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      • #48
        Could you get me some oranges?

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        • #49
          I'm inclined to believe the general outline of the story MJK told Joe Barnett. Some of the details may have been glamourised/sanitised, or Barnett may have misremembered some stuff, but there is a certain amount of corroboration.

          The thing I'm most dubious about is the name. The little seeds Debs has been dropping about the use of Marie and Jeanette in the Morganstern/Felix tribe have taken root.

          That said, it would appear that to some extent her parents and at least one brother kept in touch with her and presumably were aware of the name she was using in the East End.

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          • #50
            A couple years ago, using my basic crude techniques, I found more Marie Jeanettes in Dutch records than anywhere else, including France and Belgium where I would expect to find quite a few.

            The Dutch spelling for Jeanette is Janetje or similar variation.
            The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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            • #51
              Incidentally, Ancestry has a new record set: UK Coal Mining Accidents and Deaths Index, 1878-1935.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                Incidentally, Ancestry has a new record set: UK Coal Mining Accidents and Deaths Index, 1878-1935.
                Thanks, Gary.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
                  A couple years ago, using my basic crude techniques, I found more Marie Jeanettes in Dutch records than anywhere else, including France and Belgium where I would expect to find quite a few.

                  The Dutch spelling for Jeanette is Janetje or similar variation.
                  That's interesting, Anna.

                  I seem to remember we were curious about one of Bridget Kelly's sisters at one point. Did we look into her and rule her out do you remember?

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                    Incidentally, Ancestry has a new record set: UK Coal Mining Accidents and Deaths Index, 1878-1935.

                    Gary,

                    Thanks for the heads up on this. I currently have subs for Ancestry and FMP, and will have to set the setting to get notifications re new additional collections, like these.

                    I have about 4 (count 'em) possible MJKs within the context of my own candidate/line of enquiry and am now focusing more on finding MJK and it's
                    good to have these mining death records accessible.

                    A question for all: Where can I get a comprehensive list of relevant 2nd Batt. Scots Guards from? I know Debra kindly posted sometime ago on CB a listing, but I'm not sure how comprehensive the list is.

                    Regards,
                    Martyn

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                      Thanks, Gary.
                      It may contain records that have already been trawled through by Ripperologists. I've never searched for MJK's Davis/ies before, so I don't know if there's anything new there.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Martyn Priestnall View Post
                        Gary,

                        Thanks for the heads up on this. I currently have subs for Ancestry and FMP, and will have to set the setting to get notifications re new additional collections, like these.

                        I have about 4 (count 'em) possible MJKs within the context of my own candidate/line of enquiry and am now focusing more on finding MJK and it's
                        good to have these mining death records accessible.

                        A question for all: Where can I get a comprehensive list of relevant 2nd Batt. Scots Guards from? I know Debra kindly posted sometime ago on CB a listing, but I'm not sure how comprehensive the list is.

                        Regards,
                        Martyn
                        You're welcome, Martin. Do all your 'MJKs' have that name?

                        I personally don't know the answer to the Scots Guards question, but Debra probably will.

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                        • #57
                          Martyn, I made my different lists from trawling the records on FMP.
                          It depends on what you mean by comprehensive? As regards men named Kelly? Men named Henry? Men named John? Men born in Limerick? I've had a bash at a few things but not posted a lot of it. The service, pension and attestation records for the Scots Guards are on FMP. Quite a lot compared to most regiments archives. I search them regularly looking for inspiration.

                          I also did a very basic tot up of the number of Irish Catholics who were attested in to the Scots Guards from the attestation registers because there were questions about how common that would be. I think it came out around 6 or 7 percent of the Scots Guards attested in the 80's were Catholic or Irish Catholics.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                            It may contain records that have already been trawled through by Ripperologists. I've never searched for MJK's Davis/ies before, so I don't know if there's anything new there.
                            No, I haven't either. A bit too much like hard work looking for a Davi(e)s in Wales although I did research and rule out one that Lynn Cates asked me about once.

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                            • #59
                              Gary,

                              As mentioned, all 4 MJK possibilities have been selected because they
                              connect to my candidate/line of equiry (LoE) in some way (location/personnel) and also connect to the back story somehow to the WMs.

                              1. Margaret Davies, who has been mentioned way back in 2004 on CB.

                              https://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4926/13452.html

                              I have looked at her before very quickly and have some info on her,
                              which I will post on new thread in the near future. On re-reading it one time, Nina's comment "I also found the reference to Margaret Davies odd" caught my eye and made look at her again and consider here more closely.

                              From memory, there's 3 x Margaret Davies born at same time/same place,
                              but 3 Davies don't seem such a big task to eliminate at MJK by seeing if they survived beyond 09/11/1888.

                              The surname 'Rosser' is connected to M.D. per the census entries. Debra listed a David Rosser as a scots guard.
                              It might take some genealogical gymnastics (ie swap the backstory of MJK's brother and husband around) but, working from memory
                              (and imagination), M.D. could have married this David Rosser???

                              Both Simon Wood and David Orsam have made suggestions as to why Dr Gabe was at Millers Court on 09/11/1888. If M.D. was MJK, then perhaps he was there to identify MJK...just speculation though.

                              Simon posted some useful info on Dr Gabe over on CB, so thanks for that.
                              https://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=10225

                              To be continued...

                              Martyn






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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
                                A couple years ago, using my basic crude techniques, I found more Marie Jeanettes in Dutch records than anywhere else, including France and Belgium where I would expect to find quite a few.

                                The Dutch spelling for Jeanette is Janetje or similar variation.
                                I noticed that the names Jeannette and Maria in that combination were common in Dutch records. Jeannette seem to have been used more as a first name. The surname Lawrens also pops up, which made me double take when I saw a Jeanette Maria Lawrens!

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