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Point To Ponder : Is The "Anti-Semitic Angle" Card Overplayed In The Case ?

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  • Point To Ponder : Is The "Anti-Semitic Angle" Card Overplayed In The Case ?

    I'll start it off....all in my humble opinion.

    I'm one those ( who else and how many, I don't know) people who do not see an intentional, thought out anti-Semitic angle to the crimes.

    I don't believe the fact that some of the women charred for Jewish employers...one being killed near a Jewish socialist club....or any other alleged link to Jewish people means anything special.

    The belief that only a Gentile would write 'Juwes' for Jews is basically that....a belief and not fact. A Jewish person who had recently arrived in London could have spelled the word that way if his command of English wasn't up to speed...



    If the Ripper was a xenophobe, he certainly showed it in a bizarre way by murdering X amount of Gentile women...and he would have almost certainly known they were Gentile unfortunates.

    This is not to suggest that tensions between native born Brits ( and assimilated Jews) and newly arrived Jews weren't present.

    But I don't think the murders were committed to make life tougher for Jews.

    What's your opinion ?
    Thanks......
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  • #2
    They don't look like anti-Semitic murders to me.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
      They don't look like anti-Semitic murders to me.
      Not in the sense of their all being committed to bring discredit upon the Jews because of the killer's antisemitism. But there is an undeniable Jewish aspect to the double event which could conceivably have been deliberately constructed to divert suspicion away from another group and onto the Jews.

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      • #4
        But there is an undeniable Jewish aspect to the double event which could conceivably have been deliberately constructed to divert suspicion away from another group and onto the Jews.
        -Gary Barnett-

        What other group would that be in your estimation, Gary ?
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
          But there is an undeniable Jewish aspect to the double event which could conceivably have been deliberately constructed to divert suspicion away from another group and onto the Jews.
          -Gary Barnett-

          What other group would that be in your estimation, Gary ?
          I had the slaughtermen in mind, How. If you recall, the papers claimed that after the Pizer fiasco the 'slaughterman theory was revived'. Whether it is plausible that the Jewishness of the DE was a deliberate construct or not, there were a small group of individuals who had personally come under suspicion in the immediate aftermath of the Nichols killing who might have felt they were being targeted again in the weeks prior to the DE.

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          • #6
            If you recall, the papers claimed that after the Pizer fiasco the 'slaughterman theory was revived'

            Yes I do, buddy.

            The theory that you suggest ( throwing suspicion on to another group or entity ) sounds as if slaughter men or a slaughter man, not pleased with being back under the spotlight with the exoneration of Pizer, go and murder a pair of unfortunates, leaving the GSG and killing one woman at a very Jewish location.

            It would seem to me that the best way to get off the griddle and stay off the hot seat would be to keep my nose clean.

            Unless I am misunderstanding your point, Gary....am I ?
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            • #7
              Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
              If you recall, the papers claimed that after the Pizer fiasco the 'slaughterman theory was revived'

              Yes I do, buddy.

              The theory that you suggest ( throwing suspicion on to another group or entity ) sounds as if slaughter men or a slaughter man, not pleased with being back under the spotlight with the exoneration of Pizer, go and murder a pair of unfortunates, leaving the GSG and killing one woman at a very Jewish location.

              It would seem to me that the best way to get off the griddle and stay off the hot seat would be to keep my nose clean.

              Unless I am misunderstanding your point, Gary....am I ?
              If the focus isn't shifted, you remain on the griddle, don't you? If you've been hauled in by the police and grilled about your movements on the night of Polly's murder and then again by Wynne Baxter, it might make you feel a little vulnerable if the attention of the press and reportedly the police was coming back in your direction. Especially if you had something to hide.

              Eddowes was killed in a place of far greater significance to the Jews of London than the IWEC. I don't mean that particular corner of Mitre Square, but that particular corner of The City.

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              • #8
                Seems a very subtle attempt to implicate the Jews. Why didn't the killer chalk a Star of David next to Eddowes's head?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
                  Seems a very subtle attempt to implicate the Jews. Why didn't the killer chalk a Star of David next to Eddowes's head?
                  Wouldn't that have suggested a Jewish killer who wanted to reveal his religion/ethnicity or, more likely, an anti-Semitic killer?

                  The DE took place in two areas outside of Spitalfields/Whitechapel. One in STGITE on the premises of a Jewish club (a 'regular hell') in the the most Jewish part of a largely gentile parish. The other took place in what was considered the historical heartland of London Jewry. Then to cap it all, the killer leaves a clue in a building off Petticoat Lane (the Jews' market) beneath a message which can be construed as saying either 'don't blame the Jews' or 'blame the Jews'. Either way, 'the Jews' hit the headlines.

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                  • #10
                    I've been looking for an image of Dukes Place - outside the synagogue - on the sabbath to illustrate my point about how the Jewish significance of the area might have been apparent to a gentile not well versed in Anglo-Jewish history. No luck so far.

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                    • #11
                      It is an interesting conundrum, to which there is no easy answers.As Gary will know, antisemitic behaviour was not in anyway confined to the east end of London. The land of tailors in the Old Kent Road ,south of the Thames is a prime example.

                      I am a Londoner born (Paddington)and later dragged up in tropical Brixton. There always was in the early 195Os a degree of unspoken distrust of Jewry. I do not have a dog in this fight having spent my school days with several Jewish lads. But, the fact remains that historically, Jews,much the same as the Roma were considered to be 'outsiders', both in language , customs and culture.

                      This , I think was part of the suspicions raised by police in 1988 that JTR may have come from that background. Ironically,it could have been the rationale' behind this and the supposed Masonic connections. Both entities were considered 'different' from the norm of the times. In the case of the latter, elitist and secretive while the former concealing much by the extensive use of Yiddish to create a similar mystique.

                      Merv
                      Be nice to one another!
                      Merv

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jachim3926 View Post
                        It is an interesting conundrum, to which there is no easy answers.As Gary will know, antisemitic behaviour was not in anyway confined to the east end of London. The land of tailors in the Old Kent Road ,south of the Thames is a prime example.

                        I am a Londoner born (Paddington)and later dragged up in tropical Brixton. There always was in the early 195Os a degree of unspoken distrust of Jewry. I do not have a dog in this fight having spent my school days with several Jewish lads. But, the fact remains that historically, Jews,much the same as the Roma were considered to be 'outsiders', both in language , customs and culture.

                        This , I think was part of the suspicions raised by police in 1988 that JTR may have come from that background. Ironically,it could have been the rationale' behind this and the supposed Masonic connections. Both entities were considered 'different' from the norm of the times. In the case of the latter, elitist and secretive while the former concealing much by the extensive use of Yiddish to create a similar mystique.

                        Merv
                        Hi Merv,

                        You're right, of course, there were Jews and antisemitism throughout London. My specific focus is on the Jewish significance of the double event sites and the GSG, which I feel has been downplayed by some (not on here) who don't believe in an antisemitic motive for the murders. I'm not sure I do myself, but I'm convinced you'd be hard pressed to find three more prominently Jewish places than those three anywhere in London. There was only one largest (The Great) and only one oldest (Bevis Marks) synagogue in the country.

                        Gary

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                        • #13
                          I'm not a great Wiki fan, but the first sentence on the page about the Dukes Place Synagogue seems appropriate to post here:

                          The Great Synagogue of London was, for centuries, the centre of Ashkenazi synagogue and Jewish life in London. It was destroyed during World War II, in the Blitz.

                          A few minutes away, the Sephardic Bevis Marks synagogue was even older.

                          Picture the scene on the sabbath when Jews of all conditions from the richest arriving in their carriages to the poorest sweatshop workers would be thronging the streets around Mitre Square. Where in London would there have been anything to match it?

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                          • #14
                            On the night of the DE the Ripper (if it was the Ripper) crossed the Commercial Road to kill Stride in STGITE. There was a much lower density of Jewish residents in that parish than in Whitechapel or Spitalfields, except in one or two areas. Berner Street ran through the handful of streets there which had a 95% or more Jewish population (dark blue).

                            image.jpeg

                            Edit: I've cut the map off just above the Highway. That part of the parish was probably the least Jewish of all. But the point is still made.

                            Interestingly the three red blocks below Berner Street were where Charles Lechmere had lived as a boy and a young man and where his old Ma was still living in 1888. And where the Pinchin Street torso would later be dumped, in sight of (I'm convinced, though Ed Stow has his doubts) CAL's childhood home.

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                            • #15
                              Howard -

                              I can't see a racist using the term "The Jews are the Men..."

                              He would simply write "The Jews." Full stop. He probably wouldn't even want to acknowledge they were men.

                              Racist graffiti is always undeniable and blunt. It's not written in riddles. It's not something one is going to mistake.

                              "Pakis Out!' "N-word!" "Whites Suck!"

                              "The Juwes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing" is too convoluted for a racial slur. It's hardly even an insult.

                              Personally, I think the use of the term "the Jews are the Men" almost makes it sound like it was written by a 13 year old boy who is exerting his own masculinity.

                              "Us Jewish Men won't be Blamed for Something we Didn't do."

                              A grown man probably wouldn't write like that; but a 13 year old might, especially if he was the sole bread winner and was exerting himself. And 13 year-olds have chalk.

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