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  • David Janett & Mary Jane Davies

    (We ought to have a For What It's Worth" department just for me.)

    This is from "The Cambrian", 25 February, 1881. My suspicious mind just couldn't resist this one.
    Attached Files
    The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

  • #2
    Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
    (We ought to have a For What It's Worth" department just for me.)

    This is from "The Cambrian", 25 February, 1881. My suspicious mind just couldn't resist this one.
    Anna,

    After Gareth, I consider you the Forumís Wales expert.

    Have you seen Gavin and Stacey?

    Gary

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
      This is from "The Cambrian", 25 February, 1881. My suspicious mind just couldn't resist this one.
      Melincryddan is exactly 2 miles from where I'm sitting now. Do you want me to nip round there and ask them if they know anything about MJK?

      BTW, the defendant's mother admitted paternity? How does that work? I guess the law had to make do with whatever it got in the days before DNA tests...
      Kind regards, Sam Flynn

      "Suche Nullen"
      (F. Nietzsche)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
        Melincryddan is exactly 2 miles from where I'm sitting now. Do you want me to nip round there and ask them if they know anything about MJK?

        BTW, the defendant's mother admitted paternity? How does that work? I guess the law had to make do with whatever it got in the days before DNA tests...

        LOL! By all means, inquire about MJK!

        That was before the days of artificial intelligence. I recently saw a video with a canned voice which noted that King Tutankhamun had serious medical issues because it is well known his parents were "BROTHERS".

        Unfortunately I can find no more on Mr. Janett and Miss Davies.
        The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

        Comment


        • #5
          I obsess about weird things and there are several things about Joe B.'s rendition of Mary Jane's life that puzzle me.

          A long time ago I was told here on the Forum that Mary can sound like Marie, like Marie Lloyd. Everyone who knew MJK, except Joe B., knew her as Mary Jane. (I don't think Walter Dew counts. His use of the name Marie sounds fake to me, like he tried too hard to 'prove' his inside knowledge.) Anyway I fully understood while watching a video Dr. Wynn Weston-Davies made at MJK's presumed grave site.

          Joe B. said Mary's husband's name was Davis or Davies yet we understand both sound pretty much the same in Wales. However that is, how could Joe live with Mary about 18 months and not know a first name for her husband? It seems a very young couple would have been on a first name basis. I have considered Mary's husband's name might have been David (or Davey) Davies and such do exist in Wales.

          The Jeanette thing we thought came from Mary's experience in France but it sounds like her French experience was unpleasant to say the least. Then we consider if she picked up (Marie) Jeanette while living with the Morgenstern clan.

          Joe B. said Marie Jeanette was her real name.

          Well, in the news clip in post #1 here we have a David Janett who impregnated a Mary Jane Davies. Did they get married or consider themselves married? Did the child survive or die young? Unfortunately, even limiting the search to one quarter, there are too many Davies babies born in Wales to begin to sort them. No Janetts show up in the BMD for any reasonable amount of time around this story.

          If there is anything to this line of reasoning, where did Kelly come from? Maybe as once suggested, it was a great alias to use around the Irish girls in the dock area. Or maybe Mary Jane Davies' mother was a Kelly? Brought to Wales when young? Lots of possibilities.
          The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
            Anna,

            After Gareth, I consider you the Forumís Wales expert.

            Have you seen Gavin and Stacey?

            Gary
            I didn't see this earlier. (We have heavy lightning and rain storms and I had some trouble getting on here.)

            Gavin and Stacey?
            The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
              I didn't see this earlier. (We have heavy lightning and rain storms and I had some trouble getting on here.)

              Gavin and Stacey?
              A sitcom about an Essex (Cockney) boy, Gavin, who falls for a Welsh girl, Stacey.


              https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Fcu7Acxd0

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                A sitcom about an Essex (Cockney) boy, Gavin, who falls for a Welsh girl, Stacey.


                https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Fcu7Acxd0
                You DO improve my TV viewing. I have seen every episode of "Dad's Army" that is available on youtube.
                The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

                Comment


                • #9
                  This is probably going to be really awkward. David Janett does not show up in UK BMD but there is this census entry with the right location. The original article was printed under Neath news. So, if this is the David Janett in the article, he would have been around 20 years old when the baby was born in 1881. They must have been a young couple.
                  Attached Files
                  The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I was trying to think what search terms I used to get the clip in post #1. I have learned not to search for Mary Jane Kelly + Davies. Certainly not for Marie Jeanette.

                    I believe my search terms were "Mary Jane" ~and~ "Cwmavon". I know I was looking for information on Cwmavon. So to Gareth goes a lot of thanks if this should turn out to be anything important.

                    I was shocked when that article came up because it was not what I had specifically asked for and I don't really know why it came up.
                    The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Since this is a Point to Ponder, I am still pondering. The name Janett, and there are many different spellings, is from Old French or even Anglo-Saxon. It is fairly rare in Britain and considered to come more from Scotland. The highest concentrations of them seem to be in North America; Canada and the US, with our state of Vermont having a high percentage. There is a Dutch Van Jennett but I do not think that pertains even to what I am pondering.

                      Somehow David Janett's family did not get any records in the UK BMD though the census entry below suggests David was born in Wales in 1861.

                      Joe Barnett's story seems so straightforward but we can't piece it together in the real world. Joe worked hard most of his time with Mary, probably six days a week. In the evenings perhaps they spent a lot of time in pubs. How well did he hear her story? Or did he have a problem hearing?

                      According to Joe, Mary's husband's name was Davis or Davies but Gareth says both would sound about the same in Welsh. I have made the point over and over that Joe should have heard/known the first name of Mary's husband and have wondered if it was David.

                      For instance, "My husband's name was David." Compared to, "I fixed Davey's dinner." Now THERE is a difference between David and Davey and a young wife is likely to have a pet name for her husband.

                      The Carmarthen/Carnaervon/Cwmavon place names fit a similar pattern.

                      What if Mary said something like, "My real name (is) (should be) Mah-REE Janett? What if she said it was a French spelling? It is, though it does not mean "little Jeanne" as in Jeanette.

                      I cannot find Kellies right in Cwmavon. There are lots of Davies. There was a terrible accident in the Meadow Pit colliery in 1879 though it was not an explosion. Six miners were going 95 feet below, a rope broke and they died. None of those names link to Mary's story.

                      I cannot find a gaffer named John in Cwmavon. I do find a number of Henry Davies, some very respectable and some not so much. There were a number of John Davies in Cwmavon but too many to sort out.

                      Considering the high percentage of Jannets in North America, what if David Jannet, after being ordered to support his child, emigrated? What if the baby died young? I think it was Mrs. P. who said Mary had said she had a child but Mrs. P. had never seen it.

                      If we could tie Kelly into the story we might yet have something.
                      The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Still pondering....

                        Here is a JOHN Davies, gaffer at Dowlais iron works, married man, deceased in accident, 1876.

                        From "Cardiff Times", 13 May, 1876
                        Attached Files
                        The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          John Davies, gaffer at Dowlais iron works was 38 when he died in the 1876 accident. For whatever reason the system is claiming, when I add the clip, that I have made a duplicate post. (???????)
                          The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi Anna,

                            Interesting discovery. It might be possible to identify the child. In the March quarter of 1881 there were four births registered in Neath where the child's surname and mother's maiden name was given (or transcribed) as Davies.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Paul Williams View Post
                              Hi Anna,

                              Interesting discovery. It might be possible to identify the child. In the March quarter of 1881 there were four births registered in Neath where the child's surname and mother's maiden name was given (or transcribed) as Davies.
                              Wonderful, Paul! The child in question was born 6 January, 1881 and it would sure help if we had the name of the child. There was a Janett Davies or two but I assume they were female and the intent was Janet. Then there are all the David Davies..... Maybe the child's name was David Davis Davies which could be a lovely Welsh name. It was all quite daunting.

                              Any help is much appreciated. IF there is anything to this trail, it could sure pull together the MJK story. Maybe Gary can dig deeper into the dock area and get more insight on Kellies there and why a Welsh girl might call herself Kelly.

                              Or we could learn if Mary Jane Davies of Neath had a mother with the maiden name Kelly.
                              The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

                              Comment

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