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Ideas & Suggestions May 2014

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  • Ideas & Suggestions May 2014

    I'd like to ask members ( or those who just view the boards ) at this time to take a moment or two and think of avenues of research...pursued before and perhaps never present ideas to the general membership on things we can do to stimulate discussion and further research.
    The purpose of my question rests in the recent malaise which has hit the site...
    Your opinion counts.
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  • #2
    o-ho, o-ho

    Hello Howard. Well, anyone who cares to discuss Campbell's book can expect a semi-intelligent conversation from me.



    • #3
      Lo siento, soon as the Begg/Bennett 'Forgotten Victims' book and of course, Tom's book, came attention went thataway.
      I will try to get to it at some point in time.
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      • #4
        Sometime ago some where on the board I read of an botched abortion angle. This is interesting because all these poor women did not want to be saddled with child rearing or so it seems to me. I could be wrong but I don't think any of them raised their children into young adulthood. The victims were not domestics types and there was little for unskilled single women to do to care for themselves and their alcohol addiction. Even if they were skilled their alcoholism would have made it impossible to function.

        The nature of their profession leads to a high pregnancy risk. Gin really did not keep you safe from conception. How deep has this been explored and if it has could I be pointed to the research and if not could somebody delve into the possibility? Is it possible these women were pregnant and let it be known they were looking for help? Is it possible that JTR posed as an abortionist to do his dirt or was an abortionist and failed on these sad victims and killed them to shut them up?

        I imagine that in the overcrowded, poverty ridden, homelessness of the East End of London in this time period an abortionist did a fair business. It isn't like today where an abortion is only a clinic away. There were no nice medical licenses hanging on walls or planned parenthood available. They would have had to ask in dark corners for an abortionist and being pregnant wouldn't be something they shouted out. Anyway, it is just a thought that sticks in my head.


        • #5
          A couple of things militate against any of the outdoor victims being in search of an abortionist...perhaps the most prominent is the location of their murders.
          I don't recall any abortionscum-murders ever being committed in the fashion the Whitechapel victims were.
          We also don't know whether they were still capable of bearing children or post-menopausal.
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          • #6
            I haven't noticed any malaise recently, I must say. On the other hand, I agree we need to find out more about how women in general would have thought and acted - how they would have got their clothes washed, bought new clothes when they could, dealt with pregnancies, children, domestic violence, safety on the streets, etc.


            • #7
              I don't believe the "Ripper" murders had anything to do with abortionists, but some of the torso murders may have.

              And yeah, Robert, I must have missed all that mayonnaise too. Didn't notice anyone spreading it too thick lately... at least nothing more than usual. Perhaps we need a Hutchinson thread and some long winded posters...LOL
              Best Wishes,
              Cris Malone
              "Objectivity comes from how the evidence is treated, not the nature of the evidence itself. Historians can be just as objective as any scientist."


              • #8
                I think some interesting things have come to light recently which has enabled 'us' to have a more rounded view of the case and in some respects I think Tom's book was the catalyst for this - as information was looked at in greater depth that disproved some of his conjecture.

                The extra details about Pizer and Piggott, the guy who wrote that letter about Thick (can't remember his name off hand), the lifestyles of various lodging house keepers,
                the extra info on Le Grand.
                Collectively this gives insights into the police investigation, social connections, the prison system and social mobility.
                Looking in a similar manner at other peripheral characters will similarly fill in a lot of blanks I am sure.


                • #9
                  I don't think we have malaise. We're not getting stuck on three or four subjects like other forums sometimes do. I joined this forum because it is slower paced and less contentious than some.

                  I too am interested in the day to day living conditions Jack's victims in particular, experienced. We can get ideas about life in general in those days but the women of the class Jack killed had extra problems.

                  I don't think any of Jack's C-5 victims had had an abortion or that abortion was the cause of the attacks. I too have considered where the women were in their reproductive lives and would think all but MJK were peri-menopausal. Middle aged women can still become pregnant but many women can no longer conceive after their 30s. At any rate MJK seems not to have been pregnant and she'd be the one most likely to have been the victim of an abortionist.

                  I need to try to sort back through whatever it was I found on Denis Kelly. I can't find my notes and can't re-do my research but believe what I found was through some connection on an ancestry board. That is probably why I can't retrace my steps. I know I look like an idiot in this matter but I do intend to figure it out one of these days.

                  Forums keep subjects active and are places where people can go to share information. Some descendants of people in this saga have been found. Maybe there will be more. Maybe more evidence will come out over time. A lot of us in this world have historical items, passed down through families, in our possession that the world doesn't know we have. There is very likely a treasure trove of information on JtR and other historic mysteries out there to be found. (Consider it was only last year that Richard III's body was located.)

                  One bit I can add about Victorian times is that a number of things were never discussed. I assume this is why descendants of Jack's victims are hard to find. In America we might joke about finding an ancestor who was "hanged as a horse thief". In reality polite families never discussed these things. Today people victimized by murder or heinous crime in general, get on the news, sponsor legislation, found victims' groups and create websites. Even 50 years ago families likely did not discuss such things.

                  If only there were family stories handed down within the victims' families, who knows what we might learn.
                  The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript


                  • #10
                    I agree with the general concensus on this thread. I can understand why How thinks we're in a bit of a malaise, but then the Ripper case as a whole is in that - it's one of those things that relies on new theories or information to keep the wheels turning.

                    Personally one of the reasons I gave away "the other" forum was the steadier pace of this forum and the fact that if you weren't on here for 2 or 3 days, when you did log back in you didn't have to wade through about 20,000 new posts to see what had been going on in the meantime.