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5 Q With : Iselio De Lisi

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  • Belladonna
    replied
    1. How long have you been interested in the London murders ?

    I have been aware of Jack the Ripper as long as I remember. I started looking into the case beyond "Top hat and cape" about 10 years ago.


    2. Do you believe the crimes were actually solved and that the police did not want to make a big thing out of it by never telling the public it was solved ?

    It's possible, but probably like today many people claiming many suspects. I don't think anything was solved definitively then, now and probably never will be.


    3. What is your favorite part of the study of these murders ?

    Finding out details about obscure people who would have been lost to history otherwise. The Victorians were fascinating people.


    4. If you were in charge of the police in 1888, would you have done anything different ?

    I think it is problematic to judge history with today's values. Maybe more scenes of crime photographs? But that is with the knowledge it would be good to have them now.


    5. Are there any suspects that you feel are interesting ?

    Most of the named suspects are interesting. I think that is probably why they are suspects. I don't think any of the named suspects are the murderer. I find Druit and Tumblety interesting, but I don't think either were the killer.

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  • Maria Birbili
    replied
    Originally posted by Rob Clack View Post
    This comes across as a bit naive and from someone who doesn't really know anything about what actually happened at the time and doesn't know the period very well. That might come across as a bit harsh, but that's the way I am reading it.
    Rob
    I'm with Rob pertaining to answer #2.
    The same about Nemo referring to the so-called "Let them eat cake"-French approach, which is completely inaccurate historically, as it's well documented that Marie-Antoinette NEVER uttered that alleged quote.

    I'll say something that might appear harsh here, but the main reason I'm seeing in obstructing Ripperology from some day becoming publically accepted as a research field is the too frequent disinterest to get acquainted with research results before issuing opinions. Try that approach in any academic field, and you'll be ridiculed and thrown out the door. Instantly.

    Apart from this, I'm very happy that Ripperology is reaching Italy.


    Pertaining to answer #5, there is no evidence whatsoever that Micheal Kidney was "jealous".
    The idea of Kidney as a suspect is not contemporary to the crimes and has originated with A.P. Wolf in 1993, without any solid research. With the general neglect of Berner Street until very recently, the idea of Kidney as an abuser, pimp, and possible killer has been more or less perpetrated in the subsequent lit after 1993.

    What have been used against Kidney to perpetrate the myth of "jealous BF" is Inspector Reid's question to Kidney at the Stride inquest pertaining to a "padlock on the door". Kidney's testimony clearly states that while he owned the main padlock, Stride had her means of coming in and out unrestrained by borrowing a key from the landlord, or most plausibly, by having made a duplicate for herself. There is no evidence whatsoever of Kidney having locked Stride in at their living quarters, and no evidence whatsoever of him being particularly "jealous". Evidence speaks for their fights and frequent separations being simply related to alcoholism on both sides.

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  • Howard Brown
    replied
    Tom:
    Who said what was worthless ?

    Rob:
    Fair enough...that's how you read it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rob Clack
    replied
    I'm sure he can Howard, what I am getting at is:

    I do not think there was a "Jack the Ripper", Whitechapel has always been the scene of brutal crimes. The newspapers of the time are full of murders. The invention of newspapers "Jack the Ripper", has certainly led to the creation of some emulators.

    Whitechapel has always been the scene of brutal crimes? The newspapers of the time are full of murders?


    No murder was solved. It seems clear that the authorities are concerned only because the population was revolting. But actually it is not the will to stop the phenomenon. I think they thought something like, "Let them kill each other." Symptomatic of this is Anderson, the newly appointed head of Scotland Yard, he goes on vacation in Switzerland for a month.


    This comes across as a bit naive and from someone who doesn't really know anything about what actually happened at the time and doesn't know the period very well. That might come across as a bit harsh, but that's the way I am reading it.

    Rob

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  • Tom_Wescott
    replied
    Okay, so my input is worthless and the time I spent researching and writing my Exonerating Kidney article was an absolute waste of time.

    Yours truly,

    Tom Wescott

    Leave a comment:


  • Howard Brown
    replied
    That's what I thought he meant myself. But that taken with everything else he said doesn't make a lot of sense. And I think I have understood him correctly.
    Rob Clack

    I'm sure Izzy is a big boy and can answer for himself, but the reply to the second question which has attracted attention seems to be the only reply that's not a typical, ordinary opinion..

    Leave a comment:


  • Tom_Wescott
    replied
    Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
    Tom:

    Two things...

    I believe Iselio is closer to my age than yours.

    " Anyway, that's how the Kidney-as-killer myth got started which led to the current 'Stride was not a Ripper victim' phenom.
    .."

    It may have with some, but certainly not me.
    I was against Kidney-as-perp from Day One...back when I felt strongly that Stride was a Ripper victim.
    I feel she isn't at this point in time.
    Hi Howard. 'Younger' was perhaps a poor choice of words. I should say 'newer', or 'casual readers'. And I wasn't suggesting by any means that everyone who thinks Stride was not a Ripper victim came that way via Kidney as the killer. My point is that this was the modern beginnings of the movement towards not counting Stride as a Ripper victim. Many, many other myths have also lent to this way of thinking, such as the nonsense that the knife used on her was dull and therefore different from that use on Eddowes, or that her murder site ruled her out geographically, or that BS Man had to be her killer, but behaved differently than our swift top-hatted friend, so couldn't have been the Ripper. Or even the fantasy that Liz was on a prolonged date with a man who liked to change hats and coats every 45 minutes, and wasn't a prostitute, therefore wasn't a Ripper victim. There's no truth in any of this but through repetition the notion of excluding Stride has caught on. And every single time I've seen a discussion along those lines, these same errors and myths are brought up. What throws a wrench in the works of such a theory is of course the murder of Eddowes under identical circumstances only 45 minutes later and a 10 minute walk away. If you're right and Stride was a completely 100% unrelated murder, then it's the king of all coincidences. But before jumping so far to THAT conclusion, you should consider that Eddowes and Stride were killed by two different men working in tandem. Or to return to an old chestnut, he heard Leon Goldstein walking his way, gave her a quick cut, and split right behind him.

    Yours truly,

    Tom Wescott

    Leave a comment:


  • Rob Clack
    replied
    Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
    Two words: Andrew Cook.

    Yours truly,

    Tom Wescott
    Probably right there.

    Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
    Rob:
    I think there may be a problem with our understanding of Iselio's answer...which is why I asked him whether he wanted me to translate for him...not that his English is poor, but for a more accurate explanation, he might have to do so in Italian.
    My interpretation of his response to # 2 is that Iselio senses the police were not quite as concerned for the populace as some might feel.
    That's what I thought he meant myself. But that taken with everything else he said doesn't make a lot of sense. And I think I have understood him correctly.

    Rob

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  • Howard Brown
    replied
    Exactly my view, Neems...thanks.

    I also think we're all generous enough to cut some slack for people who speak English as a second language.

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  • Paul Kearney A.K.A. NEMO
    replied
    Sounds like a general cultural comment to me Howard - like the French "Let them eat cake" type of attitude

    Leave a comment:


  • Howard Brown
    replied
    Tom:

    Two things...

    I believe Iselio is closer to my age than yours.

    " Anyway, that's how the Kidney-as-killer myth got started which led to the current 'Stride was not a Ripper victim' phenom.
    .."

    It may have with some, but certainly not me.
    I was against Kidney-as-perp from Day One...back when I felt strongly that Stride was a Ripper victim.
    I feel she isn't at this point in time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Howard Brown
    replied
    Rob:
    I think there may be a problem with our understanding of Iselio's answer...which is why I asked him whether he wanted me to translate for him...not that his English is poor, but for a more accurate explanation, he might have to do so in Italian.
    My interpretation of his response to # 2 is that Iselio senses the police were not quite as concerned for the populace as some might feel.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tom_Wescott
    replied
    Originally posted by Rob Clack View Post
    This the first time I have used this expression but W T F?

    Rob
    Two words: Andrew Cook.

    Yours truly,

    Tom Wescott

    Leave a comment:


  • Tom_Wescott
    replied
    Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
    Izzy :
    If you want me to translate any answer you have from Italian to English, let me know...I'll do it.

    Tom...actually, we don't know how many people think Kidney was the killer.
    A.P. Wolf does.
    He did, I don't know that he does any longer. If you'll recall his book he pointed the finger of blame at Kidney for all the wrong reasons. He even thought Kidney had reported the murder before her body had been found. That certainly would have convinced me of his guilt if it had been at all true. Anyway, that's how the Kidney-as-killer myth got started which led to the current 'Stride was not a Ripper victim' phenom. I urged AP to correct his text at the Casebook but I don't believe that was ever done. Many of these Kidney related errors were repeated in book after book over the next 20 years, so it's no small wonder that younger readers such as Izzy will think Kidney killed Stride.

    Yours truly,

    Tom Wescott

    Leave a comment:


  • Rob Clack
    replied
    Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post

    and Iselio's reply :
    ************************************************
    2 - I do not think there was a "Jack the Ripper", Whitechapel has always been the scene of brutal crimes. The newspapers of the time are full of murders. The invention of newspapers "Jack the Ripper", has certainly led to the creation of some emulators.
    No murder was solved. It seems clear that the authorities are concerned only because the population was revolting. But actually it is not the will to stop the phenomenon. I think they thought something like, "Let them kill each other." Symptomatic of this is Anderson, the newly appointed head of Scotland Yard, he goes on vacation in Switzerland for a month.
    This the first time I have used this expression but W T F?

    Rob

    Leave a comment:

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