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5 Q With : Iselio De Lisi

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  • 5 Q With : Iselio De Lisi

    Many thanks to Izzy for responding to the call of the volpe ( "Wolf" in Italian ) !!

    1. How long have you been interested in the London murders ?
    2. Do you believe the crimes were actually solved and that the police did not want to make a big thing out of it by never telling the public it was solved ?
    3. What is your favorite part of the study of these murders ?
    4. If you were in charge of the police in 1888, would you have done anything different ?
    5. Are there any suspects that you feel are interesting ?

    Now I go bilingual.........


    1. Da quanto tempo sei stato interessato negli omicidi di Londra?
    2. Credi che i crimini sono stati effettivamente risolti e che la polizia non ha voluto fare una grande cosa fuori di esso senza mai dire il pubblico è stato risolto?
    3. Qual è la tua parte preferita dello studio di questi omicidi?
    4. Se tu fossi a capo della polizia nel 1888, avrebbe fatto qualcosa di diverso?
    5. Ci sono sospetti che si sentono sono interessanti?

    and Iselio's reply :
    ************************************************

    -I read something about the Whitechapel murders the first time, about 5 years ago.
    I arrived at the wikipedia link, thanks to the unpredictable mechanisms of the network.

    2 - I do not think there was a "Jack the Ripper", Whitechapel has always been the scene of brutal crimes. The newspapers of the time are full of murders. The invention of newspapers "Jack the Ripper", has certainly led to the creation of some emulators.
    No murder was solved. It seems clear that the authorities are concerned only because the population was revolting. But actually it is not the will to stop the phenomenon. I think they thought something like, "Let them kill each other." Symptomatic of this is Anderson, the newly appointed head of Scotland Yard, he goes on vacation in Switzerland for a month.

    3 - My interest is all about Elizabeth Stride.

    4 - Yes, economic rewards. Establishment of civil patrols headed by a police officer.

    5 - I can only answer for the murder of Elizabeth Stride. I am not alone in thinking that the murderer was the jealous Michael Kidney.
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  • #2
    Zounds!

    Hello Howard, Iselio.

    Thanks for these ideas Howard, and thanks to Iselio for answering them.

    Obviously, when I read #2, I almost dropped my teeth (OK, to be honest, gums) on the table.

    Seriously?

    Cheers.
    LC

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    • #3
      Hmmmm re No2,

      How many murders occurred pre 88?

      Monty

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Iselio De lisi
        I can only answer for the murder of Elizabeth Stride. I am not alone in thinking that the murderer was the jealous Michael Kidney.
        Yes you are.

        Yours truly,

        Tom Wescott

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        • #5
          Izzy :
          If you want me to translate any answer you have from Italian to English, let me know...I'll do it.

          Tom...actually, we don't know how many people think Kidney was the killer.
          A.P. Wolf does.
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          • #6
            Great answer to No. 2 Iselio - shocked me too - lol

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post

              and Iselio's reply :
              ************************************************
              2 - I do not think there was a "Jack the Ripper", Whitechapel has always been the scene of brutal crimes. The newspapers of the time are full of murders. The invention of newspapers "Jack the Ripper", has certainly led to the creation of some emulators.
              No murder was solved. It seems clear that the authorities are concerned only because the population was revolting. But actually it is not the will to stop the phenomenon. I think they thought something like, "Let them kill each other." Symptomatic of this is Anderson, the newly appointed head of Scotland Yard, he goes on vacation in Switzerland for a month.
              This the first time I have used this expression but W T F?

              Rob

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
                Izzy :
                If you want me to translate any answer you have from Italian to English, let me know...I'll do it.

                Tom...actually, we don't know how many people think Kidney was the killer.
                A.P. Wolf does.
                He did, I don't know that he does any longer. If you'll recall his book he pointed the finger of blame at Kidney for all the wrong reasons. He even thought Kidney had reported the murder before her body had been found. That certainly would have convinced me of his guilt if it had been at all true. Anyway, that's how the Kidney-as-killer myth got started which led to the current 'Stride was not a Ripper victim' phenom. I urged AP to correct his text at the Casebook but I don't believe that was ever done. Many of these Kidney related errors were repeated in book after book over the next 20 years, so it's no small wonder that younger readers such as Izzy will think Kidney killed Stride.

                Yours truly,

                Tom Wescott

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Rob Clack View Post
                  This the first time I have used this expression but W T F?

                  Rob
                  Two words: Andrew Cook.

                  Yours truly,

                  Tom Wescott

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                  • #10
                    Rob:
                    I think there may be a problem with our understanding of Iselio's answer...which is why I asked him whether he wanted me to translate for him...not that his English is poor, but for a more accurate explanation, he might have to do so in Italian.
                    My interpretation of his response to # 2 is that Iselio senses the police were not quite as concerned for the populace as some might feel.
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                    • #11
                      Tom:

                      Two things...

                      I believe Iselio is closer to my age than yours.

                      " Anyway, that's how the Kidney-as-killer myth got started which led to the current 'Stride was not a Ripper victim' phenom.
                      .."

                      It may have with some, but certainly not me.
                      I was against Kidney-as-perp from Day One...back when I felt strongly that Stride was a Ripper victim.
                      I feel she isn't at this point in time.
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                      • #12
                        Sounds like a general cultural comment to me Howard - like the French "Let them eat cake" type of attitude

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                        • #13
                          Exactly my view, Neems...thanks.

                          I also think we're all generous enough to cut some slack for people who speak English as a second language.
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
                            Two words: Andrew Cook.

                            Yours truly,

                            Tom Wescott
                            Probably right there.

                            Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
                            Rob:
                            I think there may be a problem with our understanding of Iselio's answer...which is why I asked him whether he wanted me to translate for him...not that his English is poor, but for a more accurate explanation, he might have to do so in Italian.
                            My interpretation of his response to # 2 is that Iselio senses the police were not quite as concerned for the populace as some might feel.
                            That's what I thought he meant myself. But that taken with everything else he said doesn't make a lot of sense. And I think I have understood him correctly.

                            Rob

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
                              Tom:

                              Two things...

                              I believe Iselio is closer to my age than yours.

                              " Anyway, that's how the Kidney-as-killer myth got started which led to the current 'Stride was not a Ripper victim' phenom.
                              .."

                              It may have with some, but certainly not me.
                              I was against Kidney-as-perp from Day One...back when I felt strongly that Stride was a Ripper victim.
                              I feel she isn't at this point in time.
                              Hi Howard. 'Younger' was perhaps a poor choice of words. I should say 'newer', or 'casual readers'. And I wasn't suggesting by any means that everyone who thinks Stride was not a Ripper victim came that way via Kidney as the killer. My point is that this was the modern beginnings of the movement towards not counting Stride as a Ripper victim. Many, many other myths have also lent to this way of thinking, such as the nonsense that the knife used on her was dull and therefore different from that use on Eddowes, or that her murder site ruled her out geographically, or that BS Man had to be her killer, but behaved differently than our swift top-hatted friend, so couldn't have been the Ripper. Or even the fantasy that Liz was on a prolonged date with a man who liked to change hats and coats every 45 minutes, and wasn't a prostitute, therefore wasn't a Ripper victim. There's no truth in any of this but through repetition the notion of excluding Stride has caught on. And every single time I've seen a discussion along those lines, these same errors and myths are brought up. What throws a wrench in the works of such a theory is of course the murder of Eddowes under identical circumstances only 45 minutes later and a 10 minute walk away. If you're right and Stride was a completely 100% unrelated murder, then it's the king of all coincidences. But before jumping so far to THAT conclusion, you should consider that Eddowes and Stride were killed by two different men working in tandem. Or to return to an old chestnut, he heard Leon Goldstein walking his way, gave her a quick cut, and split right behind him.

                              Yours truly,

                              Tom Wescott

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