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Jack the Ripper's address - 14 Dorset Street!

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    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
    Chris:

    That someone, the author of the missive, would randomly ( ? ) pick out Dorset Street as their address and only be 12 street numbers off the location of the actual murder is a little alarming, isn't it ?

    Out of all the streets in the East End, this fellow chose Dorset Street.
    Not only that, but a week before a next murder was committed, and on that very street.

    What are the odds on this ?

    I agree with you, Howard. The address, which had been written by the author on top of the letter, was “14 Dorset Street, Spitalfields, London”.

    The letter to the police in Yarmouth, which was also published in the press, guaranteed that the Metropolitan Police visited the specific address, given in the letter, on the day of the murder.

    When the police arrived at 14 Dorset Street they found a wife who told them that she was married to Henry Maxwell. Her own name was Caroline.

    However, it soon became clear that Henry's wife Caroline had a story to tell which differed from the statements of other people.

    The author of the letter told the police to look out for the killer on either of the piers on Thursday night, where he intended to do for two Norwich women.

    In Victorian times, a Norwicher was another word for an unfair drinker. It was a person who was drinking too much from a shared glass. Consequently, a Norwich woman was an unfair drinker.

    In the letter to the Yarmouth police, the use of the expression gave the motive for the intention described in the letter. Women who took more than their fair share had to be destroyed.

    Henry Maxwell Reily was accused of desertion by Caroline, and she filed the petition for judicial separation against him in June 1888.

    Henry had been ordered by Judge Hannen at The Royal Courts of Justice to pay a large sum of money monthly to his wife Caroline, and Henry perceived of this as most unfair and utterly humiliating.

    Caroline was taking a large sum of money from Henry. She was drinking too much from a shared glass. She was an unfair drinker.

    9th November, Henry had been fighting against Caroline during the whole autumn of 1888, but Caroline had refused to stop her claim for money.

    By the end of October their case had been put on the list of causes for hearing. Caroline was only waiting for their case to be heard in court and to be granted her judicial separation and the permanent alimony from Henry.

    Henry now had very few options left. He must stop Caroline from going through with the hearing in court, or Caroline was going to ruin his life and his reputation forever.

    9th November was the day of the Lord Mayor’s Show, when the new Lord Mayor in London, the Right Honourable James Whitehead, was going in the state coach to the Royal Courts of Justice, the very place where Henry had lost his reputation and money, and was soon going to lose his whole future.

    10th November 1888 was Caroline's birthday. She had to stand and lie to the police and the coroner.

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  • Debra Arif
    replied
    Originally posted by Chris Scott View Post
    Hi Debs
    I agree that the comment about "next door" is baffling. My initial reaction was that as it was Kelly being discussed she meant she lived next door to Kelly but that also is not feasible as by saying she lived at 26 she is saying she is living in the SAME BUILDING as Kelly. The only logical - but rather far fetched - explanation I can come up with is, that as this is an article about the Kelly murder the chances are high that the address 26 Dorset Street would be mentioned somewhere so in this instance with Maxwell it is either a reporter's or typographical error and 14 Dorset Street was intended.
    The article as you posted it is saying quite categorically that Maxwell lived in the same building as Mary which no other source even hints at. It has to be an error in the article.
    Hi Chris, yes, I think it was probably some sort of error but its hard to imagine a straight forward mix up of addresses between where the Maxwell's lived and where Mary lived-the wording is odd in that case? " I assist my husband in his duties but we live next door at 26 Dorset Street, so, in effect she's saying in this particular report that wherever she assisted her husband (which we know was as night deputy at #14) she didn't actually live there (regardless of the address given)?
    At a push, I suppose room 13 was technically 'next door' to #26 as 26 and room 13 had separate access doors and were separate units?

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  • Chris Scott
    replied
    Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
    That will be why it came up in my search toady then!
    I assumed it said 25 as they mention 'next door' which I thought was in the context that they lived next door to where the murder was committed. 26 wasn't next door to 14 was it? So what does she mean by 'next door?'
    Hi Debs
    I agree that the comment about "next door" is baffling. My initial reaction was that as it was Kelly being discussed she meant she lived next door to Kelly but that also is not feasible as by saying she lived at 26 she is saying she is living in the SAME BUILDING as Kelly. The only logical - but rather far fetched - explanation I can come up with is, that as this is an article about the Kelly murder the chances are high that the address 26 Dorset Street would be mentioned somewhere so in this instance with Maxwell it is either a reporter's or typographical error and 14 Dorset Street was intended.
    The article as you posted it is saying quite categorically that Maxwell lived in the same building as Mary which no other source even hints at. It has to be an error in the article.

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  • Debra Arif
    replied
    In one paper there's a point in Caroline Maxwell's reported testimony where she says she has only spoken to Mary twice before, she is then asked why they addressed each other by first name if they had only spoken twice and weren't that familiar and Maxwell says she knew Mary well by sight from seeing her in and around 'the lodging house.'
    So, is Maxwell talking about the lodging house at #14 or #26?
    Was Mary actually known at #14 where Mr. Maxwell was deputy and hung around there sometimes, or did Maxwell really live at #26 and knew Mary from there?

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  • Debra Arif
    replied
    That will be why it came up in my search toady then!
    I assumed it said 25 as they mention 'next door' which I thought was in the context that they lived next door to where the murder was committed. 26 wasn't next door to 14 was it? So what does she mean by 'next door?'

    Leave a comment:


  • Howard Brown
    replied
    Debs:

    This article mentions #26 Dorset Street...

    Manchester Times
    November 17, 1888
    ***************


    Leave a comment:


  • Debra Arif
    replied
    Originally posted by Chris Scott View Post
    There are two sources for that address for Caroline Maxwell and her husband.
    1) The witness statement made by Maxwell on the day of the murder (9 November) starts as follows:-
    "Statement of Caroline Maxwell, 14 Dorset Street Spitalfields, the wife of Henry Maxwell, a lodging house deputy..."
    2) The testimony of Maxwell at the Kelly inquest on 12 November starts as follows:-
    "Caroline Maxwell, having been sworn, deposed as follows: I live at 14 Dorset Street, my husband's name is Henry Maxwell, he is a lodging house deputy."
    I've just come on here after reading the CB thread on the same subject but coincidentally, just today when I was reading up on Dorset St. I came across an account in the Manchester Times from Caroline Maxwell where she claims her and her husband live at 25 Dorset Street, next door to Kelly and gives the impression that her husband only worked at #14 Dorset Street as deputy.
    I didn't save the snip as I didn't realise it was under discussion on here.

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  • Paul Kearney A.K.A. NEMO
    replied
    Nice find Chris

    By this date, I think Annie Chapman had been reported as living in a Dorset St lodging house and Catherine Eddowes as having lived in a shed on Dorset St, so the choice of address is maybe not so unusual

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  • Howard Brown
    replied
    Very nice, Debs !
    Ditto to you, Chris....and also for confirming the date of the missive.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris Scott
    replied
    Naughty Debs!
    Now you shouldn't be doing this when you are not well - you should be getting better!
    But thanks anyway!

    Leave a comment:


  • Debra Arif
    replied
    1891 listing for 14 Dorset St
    This is an FMP transcript and not my own.
    #14 Dorset Street is listed after 85 Commercial Street.

    108 IRONS, William Head Widower M 32 1859 Carman
    Hoxton, London
    108 MUMFORD, Annie Servant Single F 23 1868 General Servant
    Spitalfield, London
    108 MUMFORD, Alice Daughter Single F 0 1891
    Spitalfield, London
    109 HARN, Samuel Head Married M 45 1846 Shoeblack
    Lambeth, London
    109 HARN, Charlotte Wife Married F 25 1866 Domestic Servant
    Lambeth, London
    110 KNIGHT, Henry Head Married M 38 1853 Saw Dust
    Bethnal Green, London
    110 KNIGHT, Louisa Wife Married F 40 1851
    Wiltshire
    111 SMITH, James Head Married M 41 1850 Genrl Dealer
    St Lukes, London
    111 SMITH, Louisa Wife Married F 40 1851
    Camberwell, London
    112 ANSON, W H Head Married M 23 1868 Docker
    Shoreditch, London
    112 ANSON, Sarah Wife Married F 19 1872 Laundress
    Hoxton, London
    113 JOYCE, Mary Anne Single F 12 1879
    Guildford, Surrey
    113 BROWN, Anne E Single F 35 1856
    London, City Road
    113 BUTLER, Florence Single F 17 1874
    Ireland Dublin
    113 SMITH, Helen Single F 24 1867
    Yarmouth, Norfolk

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris Scott
    replied
    Originally posted by How Brown View Post
    Nina tells me after looking through "Will The Real Mary Kelly ?" by some fellow named Chris Scott....that Caroline Maxwell & her husband, the lodging house deputy, lived at 14 Dorset Street in 1888.
    In your book, you mention not being able to place either Maxwell at 14 Dorset Street in the 1881 or 1891 censuses.....

    Its on page 92
    Terrific book in case you haven't got a copy, folks.
    There are two sources for that address for Caroline Maxwell and her husband.
    1) The witness statement made by Maxwell on the day of the murder (9 November) starts as follows:-
    "Statement of Caroline Maxwell, 14 Dorset Street Spitalfields, the wife of Henry Maxwell, a lodging house deputy..."
    2) The testimony of Maxwell at the Kelly inquest on 12 November starts as follows:-
    "Caroline Maxwell, having been sworn, deposed as follows: I live at 14 Dorset Street, my husband's name is Henry Maxwell, he is a lodging house deputy."

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris Scott
    replied
    In 1881 there were a number of households at 14 Dorset Street. The list below is the HEADS OF HOUSEHOLD ONLY. The total number of residents listed at this address in 1881 is 39.

    1881
    14 Dorset Street
    Heads of household:-
    Sampson Muhealcharsky aged 67 - Hebrew Teacher
    Isaac Cohen aged 36 - Finisher
    Mary Milmsky aged 37 - Tailoress
    Isaac A Rogers aged 40 Cab Driver
    Alfred Leach aged 48 - Stationer
    Miriam Milmsky aged 30 - Buttonhole maker
    Richard Milton aged 40 - Warehouseman (unemployed)


    If anyone can find a listing for 1891 for 14 Dorset Street that would be useful.

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  • Chris Scott
    replied
    Hi How
    I had a PM asking me to check the date and that it was not AFTER the Kelly murder.
    Below is the page header for this article, confirming that it WAS published on 2nd November 1888.
    Chris
    Attached Files

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  • Howard Brown
    replied
    Chris:

    That someone, the author of the missive, would randomly ( ? ) pick out Dorset Street as their address and only be 12 street numbers off the location of the actual murder is a little alarming, isn't it ?

    Out of all the streets in the East End, this fellow chose Dorset Street.
    Not only that, but a week before a next murder was committed, and on that very street.

    What are the odds on this ?

    Leave a comment:

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