Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Jack the Ripper's address - 14 Dorset Street!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
    Hi, Kristina! Welcome!

    It was reported that witness Caroline Maxwell's husband Henry was in charge of the rooming house. How likely is it that Caroline would have run it on her own? Or is it suggested the 'Henry Maxwell' in charge of the rooming house was another man using that name?

    As Gary said, I respect your efforts and understand if you do not divulge all details at this time and place.
    Hi Anna,

    thanks a lot, and sorry for the late response.

    People have been trying to find the man called Henry Maxwell and his wife Caroline for a long time.

    They are not in the records. I found them in India. They were in London in 1888 and were going through the separation process.

    When the murders stopped after Kelly, Henry left London. When the murders started again, Henry returned. When they stopped again, Henry left England. Henry Maxwell Reilys father was Irish. Henry was registered in London as "born about 1837". The man called Henry Maxwell was registered as Catholic. He was registered on the death certificate as "born about 1837".

    A letter was sent to the police shortly before the murder of Kelly where the author gave the address 14 Dorset Street.

    When the police arrived at 14 Dorset Street on 9th November, they met Caroline, who gave her husband's name as Henry Maxwell, as you know.

    She was doing her best to convince the police that she had been speaking to the dead woman and that she belonged to the area.

    Caroline was called to the inquest three days later. But she was quickly warned by the coroner at the inquest since her story differed from other peoples.

    The man called "Henry Maxwell" was registered in the death record as having died of pneumonia on the day when Henry Maxwell Reily embarked the steamer for England again, on 24th May.

    He came back 7-10 days before the murder in Castle Alley.

    But the death register shows that man called "Henry Maxwell" had instead died a violent death.

    However, the man called "Henry Maxwell" never received any inquest.

    A true verdict was therefore never given. No coroner and no jury had seen the body of the man.

    He was registered as having died from suicide by "cut, stab".

    It was an indictable offense to bury a man who died a violent death without any inquest and to dispose of a body in order to prevent an inquest being held.

    From the perspective of the police investigation of the Whitechapel murders, considering the fact that Henry Maxwell Reily was on his way back to London 24th May, what was achieved by recording the death of the man called Henry Maxwell in the Death Register 24th May 1889?

    Formal and official information was obtained, stating that Henry Maxwell was dead.

    With the formal death of Henry Maxwell, there was no Henry Maxwell at 14 Dorset Street anymore.

    Therefore, he was never going to be identified as Henry Maxwell Reily. No policeman and no journalist were ever going to discover who he was.


    On 24th May 1889, Melville Macnaghten officially took over the responsibility as the Assistant Chief Constable in the CID at Scotland Yard.

    On the very same day, someone in the Whitechapel Infirmary registered Henry Maxwell as dead.

    James Monro had been Henry's boss in Bengal. He knew him and his family personally.

    Macnaghtenís family was living in a house built by Carolineís family.

    Ovingdean House was built by an uncle of Carolineís great grandfather, Thomas Reid Kemp.

    Best wishes, Chris

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
    No problem, Chris. I wasnít quite sure what you meant, but I didnít take it as a personal slight.
    Thank you Gary!

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    No problem, Chris. I wasnít quite sure what you meant, but I didnít take it as a personal slight.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
    Iíll be interested to hear if thereís anything more to this than Henry Reilyís middle name being Maxwell and his wifeís forename being Caroline.

    So far the theory seems a little strange. We have a wife who is so obedient to her husband that she is prepared to do his bidding and exchange a life of middle class comfort and security for a room in the hell hole that was Dorset Street, and yet at the same time she is seeking a separation and alimony from him and can apparently afford to instruct solicitors to act on her behalf.

    And what happened to Henry Maxwell the lodging house deputy who Caroline claimed was her husband?
    Hi Gary,

    firstly I would like to apologize for my choice of words in the previous post. What I was trying to say was that as an historian, one must always analyze one's own personal understanding for every historical source and research question. I.e. just because one does not understand why something "would" have happened in the past, that does not mean it did not happen. I too have been struggling with understanding the sources from the perspective of the social class of Henry Maxwell Reily and his wife Caroline. The results are in the book.

    Now, there is much more to this than their names, Gary. In fact, there is so much evidence that Henry Maxwell Reily was the killer that I decided to write the book to let people know who he was.

    People have been trying to find the man called Henry Maxwell and his wife Caroline for a long time. They are not in the records. I found them in India. They were in London in 1888 and were going through the separation process. When the murders stopped after Kelly, Henry left London. When the murders started again, Henry returned. When they stopped again, Henry left England. Henry Maxwell Reilys father was Irish. Henry was registered in London as "born about 1837". The man called Henry Maxwell was registered as Catholic. He was registered on the death certificate as "born about 1837".

    But there is much, much more, so I recommend that you read the whole book, Gary.

    Back to 14 Dorset Street then.

    A letter was sent to the police shortly before the murder of Kelly where the author gave the address 14 Dorset Street.

    When the police arrived at 14 Dorset Street on 9th November, they met Caroline, who gave her husband's name as Henry Maxwell, as you know.

    She was doing her best to convince the police that she had been speaking to the dead woman and that she belonged to the area.

    Caroline was called to the inquest three days later. But she was quickly warned by the coroner at the inquest since her story differed from other peoples.

    The man called "Henry Maxwell" was registered in the death record as having died of pneumonia on the day when Henry Maxwell Reily embarked the steamer for England again, on 24th May.

    He came back 7-10 days before the murder in Castle Alley.

    But the death register shows that man called "Henry Maxwell" had instead died a violent death.

    However, the man called "Henry Maxwell" never received any inquest.

    A true verdict was therefore never given. No coroner and no jury had seen the body of the man.

    He was registered as having died from suicide by "cut, stab".

    It was an indictable offense to bury a man who died a violent death without any inquest and to dispose of a body in order to prevent an inquest being held.

    From the perspective of the police investigation of the Whitechapel murders, considering the fact that Henry Maxwell Reily was on his way back to London 24th May, what was achieved by recording the death of the man called Henry Maxwell in the Death Register 24th May 1889?

    Formal and official information was obtained, stating that Henry Maxwell was dead.

    With the formal death of Henry Maxwell, there was no Henry Maxwell at 14 Dorset Street anymore.

    Therefore, he was never going to be identified as Henry Maxwell Reily. No policeman and no journalist were ever going to discover who he was.


    On 24th May 1889, Melville Macnaghten officially took over the responsibility as the Assistant Chief Constable in the CID at Scotland Yard.

    On the very same day, someone in the Whitechapel Infirmary registered Henry Maxwell as dead.

    James Monro had been Henry's boss in Bengal. He knew him and his family personally.

    Macnaghtenís family was living in a house built by Carolineís family.

    Ovingdean House was built by an uncle of Carolineís great grandfather, Thomas Reid Kemp.

    Best wishes, Chris

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
    Thread open
    Thank you so much Howard.

    I also want to apologize for my bad chocie of words in the other post. Again, a big thank you.

    Kind regards, Chris

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Iíll be interested to hear if thereís anything more to this than Henry Reilyís middle name being Maxwell and his wifeís forename being Caroline.

    So far the theory seems a little strange. We have a wife who is so obedient to her husband that she is prepared to do his bidding and exchange a life of middle class comfort and security for a room in the hell hole that was Dorset Street, and yet at the same time she is seeking a separation and alimony from him and can apparently afford to instruct solicitors to act on her behalf.

    And what happened to Henry Maxwell the lodging house deputy who Caroline claimed was her husband?

    Leave a comment:


  • Howard Brown
    replied
    Thread open

    Leave a comment:


  • Howard Brown
    replied
    I do understand that you yourself have personal problems with understanding why Caroline "would" (as you put it) stay in a room at 14 Dorset Street for a few days.



    Be polite in your responses from now on.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
    In 1881, Caroline Reily was living at 20, Denmark Terrace, Brighton (below) with 2 (grand?) children and 5 servants: a butler, a cook, a housemaid, a nurse and a kitchen maid. I suspect that may have been the home of her father, Francis Baring Kemp - hence the reference to grandchildren.

    In 1891, Francis Baring Kemp, was living at 15, Denmark Terrace - he was a Sussex man and seems to have retired to the county of his birth after a career in the Indian civil service - with another of his daughters and five servants.

    They were obviously a well-heeled middle class family. The idea that Caroline was living in one of the worst streets in Spitalfields during the autumn of terror seems highly unlikely.


    [ATTACH]21323[/ATTACH]

    All this is already in the book Jack the Ripper Uncovenanted if you read it. However, the "grandchildren" were the children of Caroline and Henry. Henry deserted Caroline and she went from India to stay with her father Francis Baring Kemp in 1881. And 1882, Caroline filed her petition for divorce. It was dismissed by the court, and in 1888 Caroline filed her petition for judicial separation against Henry.


    I do understand that you yourself have personal problems with understanding why Caroline "would" (as you put it) stay in a room at 14 Dorset Street for a few days.



    But serial killer wives is a very specific category and when you research historical data, you can not exclude people from your research just because you do not understand them.



    Taking Caroline to a small lodging-house in Whitechapel where nobody knew them was easy for someone like Henry.



    In Victorian times, husbands had the power over their wives, and wives were expected to obey their husbands.



    Moreover, Caroline was born in India and had been living there for a long time. As the wife of an uncovenanted servant in Bengal, Caroline was used to following Henry and to living in all sorts of places.



    As a matter of fact, the living conditions in India were difficult and dangerous, also for women living with the men of the Raj, and the living conditions of every day life had many consequences for the safety of women in India.



    There were the constant threats from the plethora of diseases and an early death, threats which they had to live with every day. The mortality rates among women and children in India were high. Caroline had also seen two of her own children die.



    Consequently, for a woman like Caroline, who was married to an uncovenanted servant and was used to move around between different districts in Bengal during her life, staying for a few days at 14 Dorset Street was a small thing compared to all her experience.



    I recommend that you read the book where you will have all the data and references to all the historical sources.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    In 1881, Caroline Reily was living at 20, Denmark Terrace, Brighton (below) with 2 (grand?) children and 5 servants: a butler, a cook, a housemaid, a nurse and a kitchen maid. I suspect that may have been the home of her father, Francis Baring Kemp - hence the reference to grandchildren.

    In 1891, Francis Baring Kemp, was living at 15, Denmark Terrace - he was a Sussex man and seems to have retired to the county of his birth after a career in the Indian civil service - with another of his daughters and five servants.

    They were obviously a well-heeled middle class family. The idea that Caroline was living in one of the worst streets in Spitalfields during the autumn of terror seems highly unlikely.


    Click image for larger version

Name:	BEF6F72E-8C60-45BF-B7C9-96D65C621BDF.jpeg
Views:	1
Size:	175.0 KB
ID:	561246

    Leave a comment:


  • Anna Morris
    replied
    Hi, Kristina! Welcome!

    It was reported that witness Caroline Maxwell's husband Henry was in charge of the rooming house. How likely is it that Caroline would have run it on her own? Or is it suggested the 'Henry Maxwell' in charge of the rooming house was another man using that name?

    As Gary said, I respect your efforts and understand if you do not divulge all details at this time and place.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
    That doesnít explain why she would have been living in Dorset Street.

    Iím sure you wonít want to give away too much, but can you reveal the name of the person you say died in the Whitechapel Infirmary?
    Henry Maxwell.

    The man who was called Henry Maxwell did not die from pneumonia. He died a violent death.

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Originally posted by Kristina Nordqvist View Post
    Because it is a fact that Henry wanted Caroline to stop the claims for separation and money. And it is a fact that wives must obey their husbands.

    (And it was an alimony pending suit.)
    That doesnít explain why she would have been living in Dorset Street.

    Iím sure you wonít want to give away too much, but can you reveal the name of the person you say died in the Whitechapel Infirmary?

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
    Hi Kristina,

    Welcome to the boards.

    Why would middle class Caroline Reily, who was receiving a monthly alimony payment of £10, chose to slum it in Dorset Street, Spitalfields?

    Gary
    Because it is a fact that Henry wanted Caroline to stop the claims for separation and money. And it is a fact that wives must obey their husbands.

    (And it was an alimony pending suit.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Hi Kristina,

    Welcome to the boards.

    Why would middle class Caroline Reily, who was receiving a monthly alimony payment of £10, choose to slum it in Dorset Street, Spitalfields?

    Gary

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X