Sor or Sir?

[Chris G.]

Hi FX.

This was discussed on casebook a year or so back. I think the idea was that the writer was trying to implicate the Irish using some sort of feeble attempt at a stage Irish accent. A sort of OTT fake Irish "Sergeant Seamus O'Shaunessy of Precinct 47" or whatever as we used to see in some of the old black and white gangster films.

Like I said, it's an idea that doesn't really do it for me, but Irish is about the only dialect in the English language I can think of where Sir might just possibly be pronounced Sor.

If it's just a spelling mistake, why not "ser", or "Sur"? Both of which would be more likely, being pronounced the same as "Sir"?

Regards.

Paul

Stage Irish was very popular at the time. Have a look at this google search:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...C+Sor%22+Irish

By contrast, the 29 October 1888 letter to Dr. Openshaw seems to be written in a Cornish accent and references a West Country rhyme at the end. I do think there is a case to be made that both letters were by the same person and someone was playacting with both, pulling a prank sending the half a kidney with the "From Hell" letter received 16 October and then needling the man whom he believed had been sent the kidney for analysis.

All the best

Chris

[WRITEFX]

Thanks for the replies Paul and Chris.

Actually I always thought it was a OTT upper class type of 'sor' like you imagine someone working for Prince Charles.

And I just enjoyed reading that line Chris - 'written in a Cornish accent' it made me smile. Although I do know what you mean.

And as for the Irish accent. It's strange but whenever I hear someone talking like that I imagine they are putting it on.

Where I live people tend to say the same words over and over in a single conversation - usually one of the following - 'my darling, my love, my lover, hello my lovely' to name just a few - yet I've never written that down in a letter, nor does anyone I know. Nor do I use those phrases writing in forums.

So what kind of person thinks that people do write like that?

[Sam Flynn]

Where I live people tend to say the same words over and over in a single conversation - usually one of the following - 'my darling, my love, my lover, hello my lovely' to name just a few - yet I've never written that down in a letter, nor does anyone I know. Nor do I use those phrases writing in forums.

So what kind of person thinks that people do write like that?

Well, Dickens was pretty much the rage in the mid and late Victorian period, and his characters' dialogue in the books is peppered with attempts at representing regional pronunciation. I daresay other authors followed suit, and those who read their works would have been quite familiar with the idiom.

[WRITEFX]

Well, Dickens was pretty much the rage in the mid and late Victorian period, and his characters' dialogue in the books is peppered with attempts at representing regional pronunciation. I daresay other authors followed suit, and those who read their works would have been quite familiar with the idiom.

Hello Sam, I've never really thought about this subject much. I know that authors use dialects in their books but would authors believe that the characters would literally write as they think in a letter ?

[Debbie D]

I'm of the opinion that the little loop is the dot and it is in fact "Sir"


Mishter could also be Mister... here's another way to look at it.
What looks like an "h" could be an "s". I think where some see an "h" hump is actually the finishing of the s final loop. It's just my opinion that it's Sir and Mister, but I also see how it could be seen as Sor and Mishter.

[Howard Brown]

This is a pretty neat thread...

Just think how most of us have the idea that "mishter" and "sor" are "givens" when we think about the FH letter. Also in that we think "Irish affectation" too.

[Paul Butler]

Stage Irish was very popular at the time. Have a look at this google search:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...C+Sor%22+Irish

By contrast, the 29 October 1888 letter to Dr. Openshaw seems to be written in a Cornish accent and references a West Country rhyme at the end. I do think there is a case to be made that both letters were by the same person and someone was playacting with both, pulling a prank sending the half a kidney with the "From Hell" letter received 16 October and then needling the man whom he believed had been sent the kidney for analysis.

All the best

Chris

Morning Chris.

As a Westcountry boy myself, I must admit I'd always thought of the Openshaw letter as an atrocious sort of "cod cockney" in the Dick van Dyke, Johnny Depp school of awful London accents, and don't see anything, (except possibly "innerds"), that makes me think Cornish or westcountry at all.

It just goes to show how all our perceptions are slightly different on this sort of thing depending on where we come from etc.

Without doubt both the Lusk and Openshaw letters are written by people hiding behind some sort of assumed persona, hence the artificial and contrived way of "speaking", (whether this means the author was writing in an assumed accent or not), and I do believe could well be one and the same person.

If so, then it seems to me likely that the author was a well educated type, trying to emulate, (rather badly it must be said), a working class Ripper. Did real cockneys ever use expressions like "dror mi nife along of er bloomin throte"? I don't suppose we can ever be really sure, but it sounds very fake to me.

Regards.

Paul.