Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

9-12 Dorset Street

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • 9-12 Dorset Street

    Hello all,

    Does anyone know who owned the lodging houses from 9-12 circa 1888-1891? And did the house(s) at these addresses have names? Any help would be appreciated.

    Yours truly,

    Tom Wescott

  • #2
    Bump.

    Yours truly,

    Tom Wescott

    Comment


    • #3
      I assume whoever owned or leased the properties paid rates to the local authorities, also the 1891 census might give some clues,

      Comment


      • #4
        http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread....ani#post170386

        This may answer your questions but you'll have to follow the link and scroll all the way down to post #14.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks a million, Debs. This answered my question...but rather created a new one. My interest was because John Arundell, friend of Elizabeth Stride and one of the first to identify her by her real name, lived at 32 F&D Street when she was murdered. By December of that year we find him at 19 George Street when he was a witness to the Annie Farmer attack. In the 1891 census we find him as the deputy of numbers 9-12 Dorset Street. John Satchell owned 32 F&D and 19 George Street, with John McCarthy running 11 and 12 Dorset Street. Satchell and McCarthy were old friends so the connection makes sense. But could the census have made a mistake in having Arundell as deputy of 9 and 10, ran by Thomas Oyler and not McCarthy, or does it make sense to you that one man would be running four houses? That seems a rather difficult load.

          Yours truly,

          Tom Wescott

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
            Thanks a million, Debs. This answered my question...but rather created a new one. My interest was because John Arundell, friend of Elizabeth Stride and one of the first to identify her by her real name, lived at 32 F&D Street when she was murdered. By December of that year we find him at 19 George Street when he was a witness to the Annie Farmer attack. In the 1891 census we find him as the deputy of numbers 9-12 Dorset Street. John Satchell owned 32 F&D and 19 George Street, with John McCarthy running 11 and 12 Dorset Street. Satchell and McCarthy were old friends so the connection makes sense. But could the census have made a mistake in having Arundell as deputy of 9 and 10, ran by Thomas Oyler and not McCarthy, or does it make sense to you that one man would be running four houses? That seems a rather difficult load.

            Yours truly,

            Tom Wescott
            I think we talked before about how property information from land Tax records and Lodging House registers for the same years don't seem to marry up as far as owners and proprietors go? It was also discussed briefly on the thread I linked to, I think. Perhaps there's an element of that involved? I couldn't really offer an opinion without giving everything you mentioned a much closer look as there's a lot to take in there!

            Comment


            • #7
              My completely unsubstantiated opinion is that Arundell might have been one of the "bullies" employed by lodging houses as security. You know those little details that don't seem to mean much but niggle at you? One of them for me is how Elizabeth Tanner, deputy of #32, claimed not to have known Stride's real name, but Arundell knew it. This in spite of the fact that 'Long Liz' is a play on Stride's surname, so she was not secretive at all about her identity. And Tanner claimed to have been friends with Stride for six years, to the extent that she offered her that sweet paying gig of cleaning a room for the rather high payment of 6s, instead of offering it to more regular lodgers who would have killed for it.

              I'm not reading anything too deep into it, but it just niggles at me. I don't trust lodging house keepers any further than I could throw them.

              Yours truly,

              Tom Wescott

              Comment


              • #8
                Here are the plans for 11-12 Duval Street in 1903 when it was owned by McCarthy.
                Click image for larger version

Name:	12 duval street c.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	44.5 KB
ID:	553779
                Click image for larger version

Name:	12 duval street b.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	34.9 KB
ID:	553778

                Comment


                • #9
                  Updates on Arundell?

                  I've received a message (off-boards) from someone who is casually interested in Arundell as a possible suspect. I'd appreciate it if any more biographical info could be found and posted to flesh out this rather interesting character.

                  All the best,

                  JM

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Jon

                    John Peter Arundel(l). Born 1854 London. Married twice, having several children. By 1901 he was manager of St Olaves Chambers, a men's lodging house in Silvester St, Newington. This building housed over 600 people. He died in 1917 leaving approx. 150.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Is this the same man? Edit: obviously so.

                      Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	123.8 KB
ID:	556110

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Father John (labourer/fitter), mother Ann + 4 siblings living at 5, Back of Thompson's Rents, Bishopsgate in 1861.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Baptised on St. George's day (23rd April) 1854 at St. Botolph's, Bishopsgate. Father, John Edward. Mother, Hannah.

                          Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	30.7 KB
ID:	556111

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            St. Botolph, Bishopsgate

                            Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	28.1 KB
ID:	556112

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              One of them for me is how Elizabeth Tanner, deputy of #32, claimed not to have known Stride's real name, but Arundell knew it.
                              -Tom Wescott-

                              When you say he knew it ( meaning her name) I think you may have confused Arundell identifying the body with knowing her name.

                              Arundell & Charles Preston identified her at the morgue.
                              Preston stated he knew her true name.
                              Arundell didn't appear at the Stride Inquest.
                              Last edited by Howard Brown; October 16, 2015, 09:09 PM. Reason: Edited at 9:09
                              To Join JTR Forums :
                              Contact Howard@jtrforums.com

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X