Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

2014 Ripper Conference In The U.K.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • sensible

    Hello Robert. Eminently sensible.

    Cheers.
    LC

    Comment


    • brilliant

      Hello Tom.

      "Mr. P assures us that Jari has received zero money from the publisher or any party as a result of this book, so based on P's assurances, we have to assume that Jari has not signed an agreement saying he won't speak out against the book or its interests. Mr. P also assures us there's no similar contract between Edwards and Jari, because such a contract would go along with financial remuneration, which as mentioned, Mr. P assures us Jari is not receiving."

      Brilliant reasoning. You'd be a star in my logic class.

      Guess I could open a thread offering logic tutorials for those in need. Even academic wannabes could participate.

      Cheers.
      LC

      Comment


      • Hi Tracy

        Surely as his name and finding's are being quoted within the book -with his permission he has some responsibility to accept?
        What I think would be more reasonable is that Edwards is told of the error and its up to him to take it up with, what is in effect, his employee with respect to the work done.

        No but he has paired his name to it, are you sure a potential employer would not take into an account the whole matter if this arose?
        In all seriousness, I doubt it. At worst, it was poor judgment for him to get involved but he was unaware what Ripperology was like.

        Come on Mr P - not all of the people on the forums are cranks. There are quite a few respectable people who are members or have been members of the boards. I also don't thin kit should really matter where it originated if it has reason to question the validity.
        I never said all were cranks. Most is accurate. Most serious ripperologists dont even seem to frequent the boards and the one I know who does seems to spend a lot of time saying hes leaving and never coming back even though he usually does.

        I dont think in general it should matter where it comes from. BUt if its in all our interest to get an answer and the source of the question is preventing us getting that answer....then yes, I do think its important.

        Is it normal to distance yourself from your own work when someone else is publicising it - why would you do so, would he have given the rights to his findings to Edwards or could he have had them withdrawn if he felt they misrepresented him?
        Where has he distanced himself from his own work? He is distancing himself from the interpretation of it.

        Does anyone know the time line of how this all came about?

        When was Jari informed there was a book?

        When did Edwards inform him that he was quoting his reports verbatim?

        Was the work entirely finished when the book appeared or was it rushed without waiting for the work to finish?

        Was the report quoted an interim report to Edwards, a final version of the report, an informal updatijng by email to Edwards?

        Some, like Debra Arif think this in unimportant, but I certainly dont.

        Would there not be a concern from the governing bodies of lecturer's teaching students when they may have made a basic mistake in their work?
        It seemed to me he was doing the work independently therefore what he does is his own business. I think in the age of fee paying bums on seats the publicity outweighs any worries about students and basic mistakes.

        Cynical me.....

        That's true but there are a lot of crime buffs and science enthusiasts who would be interested in the outcome if the book had been correct in it's blurb.
        True but judging by the reviews on Amaxon, the people who are buying it dont seem to give a toss about accuracy or anything else.

        p

        Comment


        • "Mr. P assures us that Jari has received zero money from the publisher or any party as a result of this book, so based on P's assurances, we have to assume that Jari has not signed an agreement saying he won't speak out against the book or its interests. Mr. P also assures us there's no similar contract between Edwards and Jari, because such a contract would go along with financial remuneration, which as mentioned, Mr. P assures us Jari is not receiving."

          Brilliant reasoning. You'd be a star in my logic class
          And youd be gormless in my class because Tom is making up texts to suit his own ends.

          But critical thinking or reading isnt part of your repertoire now is it?

          It cant be when your source materials tend to be lunatic fringe zionist newspapers.

          p

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
            Incidentally, since Paul, Mr. P., and perhaps others, think that academics are so important to the field and should be treated with TLC, then why have Lynn and Maria (both academics) been treated the way they have on this thread?

            Yours truly,

            Tom Wescott
            Because I dont accept the humanities as a genuine academic pursuit.

            Anbd seeing as Lynn spends a lot of time gassing that we shouldnt place too much trust in supposed experts, then the cookie crumbles both ways.


            Im a bit Sheldon Cooper in that way.

            p

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Mr. Poster View Post
              Where has he distanced himself from his own work? He is distancing himself from the interpretation of it.
              Let's be clear about this. The errors were present in Dr Louhelainen's interpretation of his own experimental results.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by CGP View Post
                Let's be clear about this. The errors were present in Dr Louhelainen's interpretation of his own experimental results.
                Lets be clear about this: what has this to do with whether or not the Dr has distanced himself from the interpretation of his work by Edwards?

                You have to stop trying to inject yourself and your opinions about erros into contexts where it is irrelevant.

                p

                Comment


                • All Howard has to do is send a PM to me confirming his willingness to confirm that i can speak on scientific publishing with more credibility than anyone else here and do it in confidence......then its done.
                  -Lars-

                  Lars...if you wish to send me something, then by all means do it. State what conditions you wish implemented and I'll abide by them.
                  To Join JTR Forums :
                  Contact [email protected]

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mr. Poster View Post
                    Lets be clear about this: what has this to do with whether or not the Dr has distanced himself from the interpretation of his work by Edwards?
                    I repeat, the error is in Dr Louhelainen's interpretation of his own work.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by CGP View Post
                      I repeat, the error is in Dr Louhelainen's interpretation of his own work.
                      I repeat: he has distanced himself from Edwards interpetation of his work.

                      UNless someone can show me where he distances himself from his own interpretation of his own work?

                      His distancing himself has nothing to do with his error,.

                      Although you seem to be having trouble distancing yourself from the the thing which seems to be obstructing your ability to focus on anything other than the ërror"

                      p

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Lynn Cates View Post
                        Hello Tom.

                        "Mr. P assures us that Jari has received zero money from the publisher or any party as a result of this book, so based on P's assurances, we have to assume that Jari has not signed an agreement saying he won't speak out against the book or its interests. Mr. P also assures us there's no similar contract between Edwards and Jari, because such a contract would go along with financial remuneration, which as mentioned, Mr. P assures us Jari is not receiving."

                        Brilliant reasoning. You'd be a star in my logic class.

                        Guess I could open a thread offering logic tutorials for those in need. Even academic wannabes could participate.

                        Cheers.
                        LC
                        The reasoning would be sound if financial remuneration were the only form of consideration.

                        I'm no lawyer, but I believe if the deal was along the lines of 'Ill make my expertise and lab facilities available if you provide the ancient DNA and genealogical research,' then a legally binding contract would exist. Such a contract could be extended to include confidentiality clauses and conditions under which the scientific work could be peer reviewed and published. No filthy lucre need have changed hands.

                        Comment


                        • Mr Poster

                          Certainly Dr Louhelainen hasn't explicitly admitted the error, but even Edward Stow has said that what he said at Salisbury could be read as an implicit admission of error. (We're still awaiting Robert Anderson's report of what may - or may not - have been a more definite admission.)

                          I think it's clear that both Edwards and Louhelainen are adopting a strategy of presenting the erroneous "314.1C" data as dispensable, and trying to give the impression that other features of the match can compensate for the mistaken estimate of its rarity.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by CGP View Post

                            I think it's clear that both Edwards and Louhelainen are adopting a strategy of presenting the erroneous "314.1C" data as dispensable, and trying to give the impression that other features of the match can compensate for the mistaken estimate of its rarity.
                            I dont know if its clear or not.

                            Nor do I know if they feel that it is dispensable or not as I dont have access to all their information or data nor do I have access to anything that hasnt been presentd in the book or in the other media utterances. Neither do you.

                            Of course the ultimate tragedy and my constant refrain, is that if the lunatic howling hadnt reached such a crescendo on certain websites and if certain folk could finally stop spouting nonsense about competences and ëxperts" and saying that certain people are the laughing stock of ceratin circles.......then you might have gotten answers and wouldnt be wasting your time having to incessantly remind people that there is an error (and by extension one presumes, that you discovered it)

                            p

                            Comment


                            • Mr Poster

                              I'm not going to rise to the personal provocation.

                              Edit: However, I will point out that Tracy I'anson was the first to draw attention to the error.
                              CGP
                              Former Member
                              Last edited by CGP; December 18, 2014, 04:59 PM. Reason: Credit where it's due.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
                                All Howard has to do is send a PM to me confirming his willingness to confirm that i can speak on scientific publishing with more credibility than anyone else here and do it in confidence......then its done.
                                -Lars-

                                Lars...if you wish to send me something, then by all means do it. State what conditions you wish implemented and I'll abide by them.
                                Hi How

                                Sent you a pm.

                                p

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X