Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Was Catherine Eddowes Menstruating?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The impression I get of both Eddowes and Kelly is that they were both inadequate, more so Kelly. I think that Kelly was an alcoholic, Eddowes probably not but a heavy drinker nevertheless. In answer to the OP I don't think she was menstruating at the time of her death. She carried the rags for reasons of female hygiene, the small amount of blood on them was most likely from the attack rather than their intended use. Whether or not she was menopausal is debatable, the rags could have still been needed for other female requirements.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
      It wasn't presented as an idea though-it was a bold statement that she couldn't be anything else!
      A statement I admitted almost immediately was wrong once shown some statistics.

      I made the unforgivable error of using US birth statistics as a proxy for fertility. I don't get your point - should I have been inflexible? Turned this into another Buck's Row thread? I get the feeling that is a more effective technique on these boards, truth be damned.

      And it's been shown that it was highly unlikely, but not impossible. Is that really a reason to pop open the champagne corks?

      Maybe we got an insight into the Lusk kidney; maybe not. Worth talking about.


      Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
      I used to take it for granted that Eddowes was a heavy drinker and now I'm having second thoughts, so I'm glad of these threads too.
      What was said that would possibly make you think Eddowes was a social drinker?

      Killing gin soaked whores doesn't make Jack's crimes less reprehensible.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by SirRobertAnderson
        If for no other reason, I'm glad we have these threads because I have learned that some people - not new to the case - think Eddowes was only fond of the occasional nip and wasn't a prostitute. And in robust physical condition as evidenced by the hopping.
        I must have missed this post. Could you post a link
        to it, please?

        Thanks.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by SirRobertAnderson View Post
          A statement I admitted almost immediately was wrong once shown some statistics.

          I made the unforgivable error of using US birth statistics as a proxy for fertility. I don't get your point - should I have been inflexible? Turned this into another Buck's Row thread? I get the feeling that is a more effective technique on these boards, truth be damned.

          And it's been shown that it was highly unlikely, but not impossible. Is that really a reason to pop open the champagne corks?

          Maybe we got an insight into the Lusk kidney; maybe not. Worth talking about.




          What was said that would possibly make you think Eddowes was a social drinker?

          Killing gin soaked whores doesn't make Jack's crimes less reprehensible.
          Robert, I have explained my reasons for all my personal conclusions about Eddowes over and over again in different threads and supplied reasons and evidence why I might question something. I feel you aren't even reading the posts properly and claiming conclusions by people that they've never made.

          I get the feeling these same discussions are going on on facebook too where others may be giving their input- but for me it's on these threads on JTRforums that I am participating so I have no idea what is being said and by whom elsewhere. I deleted my facebook account last year.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Chris G. View Post
            Of course, I think Bob is saying that if the Lusk kidney was from Eddowes, the letter was, by implication, from the killer, and the inscription on the wall also from the killer. Right, Bob?

            Although I think you are right, Caz, that it was Sir Henry Smith who said the Lusk kidney came from Eddowes following similar claims made in some newspapers, although it doesn't seem that the doctors gave it as their opinion that the piece of kidney came from the murder victim.

            Chris
            Hi Chris,

            Yes, I gathered that was what Sir Bob was saying. That's why I pointed out that Eddowes could have been using her rags to deal with her Bright's symptoms but this would have absolutely no 'implications' for the Lusk kidney either way. It was her remaining kidney that showed definite signs of the disease and we knew that already. There is no reliable evidence that the Lusk kidney did too. I'm not sure how to make this point any clearer.

            Love,

            Caz
            X
            I wish I were two puppies then I could play together - Storm Petersen

            Comment


            • Originally posted by SirRobertAnderson View Post
              In all these years, have I ever shouted at you?
              Hi Sir Bob,

              I wasn't bothered by it, hence the wink. But bold type = shouting. It's one of the things that annoy people about Trevor's posts. But not me. If you want to use bold type, be my guest.

              There we go - same page in the hymnal. Some posters have said - in effect - "well although she was still having her period, the odds of her having her period on a given night means it's unlikely she would have needed her apron." That's what I originally took you to be saying.
              Well I did keep saying that I wasn't saying that, but you kept hearing it anyway, which might explain why you felt all the female posters here were singing with one voice to rubbish your own conclusion that Eddowes was no longer able to menstruate. In fact, I still can't recall anyone saying that the rags demonstrated beyond doubt that Eddowes was still having periods. So maybe we both need to read individual posts more carefully in future.

              I understand that Smith is regarded as unreliable and that may be true. I still think the nephritis angle is interesting as a possible cause of the bloodstains.
              See my post to Chris. Yes, since we can be fairly certain that her kidneys had signs of nephritis, it's at least possible that this caused the blood on her rags and not from her last period. Unfortunately that can give us no further insight into the Lusk kidney's origins.

              I have learned A LOT about the community's attitude towards Eddowes.

              And if I might be pedantic yet again and quote myself from Facebook; I think issues about her health, her substance abuse, and her lifestyle are worth hashing out.:

              I must respectfully say that it is important to understand the real lives on the ground - not on the printed page or on the computer screen - and have a proper sense of the victimology. If you think these women were bon vivants or something out of My Fair Lady - and some posters clearly do - why then you are meaning to tell us that Jack was a proper Hunter....not some cowardly scumbag preying on the desperate. As Trevor Bond has said one doesn't need to like these women to seek justice for them.
              I don't see any of this relating to my own posts on Eddowes. I've never been on Facebook and have no intention of joining, but I'm sorry if you have come across people in the ripper community who are not new to the case who think she was anything but a desperately poor woman who used alcohol if and when she could get it, as a way of dragging herself through her hand to mouth existence on the streets.

              Love,

              Caz
              X
              I wish I were two puppies then I could play together - Storm Petersen

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Caroline Morris View Post
                I'm sorry if you have come across people in the ripper community who are not new to the case who think she was anything but a desperately poor woman who used alcohol if and when she could get it, as a way of dragging herself through her hand to mouth existence on the streets.
                No need for you to be sorry; ain't your doing......it simply reflects poorly on the field. Some folks deny she was an alcoholic, a prostitute and malnourished. As I've said, some must have a vision outta My Fair Lady. Actually perhaps more along the lines of Holly Golightly. Well, Eddowes wasn't selling flowers that night in Mitre Square and she wasn't an "American Geisha*" no matter how witty she might have been.

                *Capote said the character was not a prostitute but "an American Geisha". Holly escorted men to nightclubs and received gifts in return.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                  Robert, I have explained my reasons for all my personal conclusions about Eddowes over and over again in different threads and supplied reasons and evidence why I might question something. I feel you aren't even reading the posts properly and claiming conclusions by people that they've never made.
                  Obviously since you cannot be wrong, others must be misunderstanding your posts or not even reading them. Great way to debate.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Livia Trivia View Post
                    I must have missed this post. Could you post a link
                    to it, please?

                    Thanks.
                    That's rich. Why not just re-read your own posts? Once is enough for me.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by SirRobertAnderson View Post
                      Obviously since you cannot be wrong, others must be misunderstanding your posts or not even reading them. Great way to debate.
                      How obnoxious.
                      I said they are my own personal conclusions-I'm not asking anyone else to say I am correct. You have misinterpreted me more than once on here.
                      I have no idea what is behind all this but you yourself take issue with others presenting opinion as fact-yet here you are saying as fact that Eddowes was an alcoholic, had veneareal disease, was emaciated, was post menopausal, with no proof at all.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by SirRobertAnderson View Post
                        That's rich. Why not just re-read your own posts? Once is enough for me.
                        Apparently not, since you've rephrased and exaggerated my
                        comments beyond recognition.

                        Originally posted by Debs
                        You have misinterpreted me more than once on here.
                        Originally posted by Debs
                        I feel you aren't even reading the posts properly and claiming conclusions by people that they've never made.
                        Originally posted by Caz
                        Well I did keep saying that I wasn't saying that, but you kept hearing it anyway, which might explain why you felt all the female posters here were singing with one voice to rubbish your own conclusion that Eddowes was no longer able to menstruate. In fact, I still can't recall anyone saying that the rags demonstrated beyond doubt that Eddowes was still having periods. So maybe we both need to read individual posts more carefully in future.
                        Originally posted by Caz
                        I don't see any of this relating to my own posts on Eddowes.
                        Can you not see this, Robert?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                          -yet here you are saying as fact that Eddowes was an alcoholic, had veneareal disease, was emaciated, was post menopausal, with no proof at all.
                          No proof, none at all. I'm on a personal vendetta against Ms. Golightly.

                          You're not the first poster to get worked up on the VD front. Just curious why anyone would think it unlikely for a East End whore to be a walking petri dish of infection? Why is this a controversial statement??

                          And we've got a photograph for the emaciation....what's the problem here? Do you think she looks well fed?? Trevor Bond is a nurse and he immediately labeled her an emaciated alcoholic.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Livia Trivia View Post
                            Apparently not, since you've rephrased and exaggerated my
                            comments beyond recognition.


                            Can you not see this, Robert?
                            I see very well what is going on, thank you.

                            A man dared to comment on female health issues.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by SirRobertAnderson View Post
                              I see very well what is going on, thank you.

                              A man dared to comment on female health issues.
                              Are you sure it isn't just about three women who dared to contradict a big man?

                              Comment


                              • .....

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X