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What Was The Motive? Sexual Serial Killer..

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Currerbell View Post
    she was obviously dead long before he started cutting her up, to carry on and on mutilating for some time, he cant have felt any love for her so the opposite of love is hate
    An interesting syllogism, Bell... but what if it was a case of his "loving to cut" more than his "hating" women? We have people today who seem to enjoy cutting and/or mutilating each other as an expression of their mutual love. The issue of consensus aside, it follows from this that isn't necessary to suppose that Jack harboured a hatred of women - or at least if he did, it might not have been his primary motivation.

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    • #32
      I recall a case from when I did A level law - R v Brown. It involved a group of adult homosexual men who engaged in sadomasochistic acts with each other over a number of years (with items such as knives, nails, and a cheese grater - I really do dread to think...) and video recorded these acts for their own private use. If I remember correctly, one member of the group left a copy of a tape in a public place (a bus I believe) and charges were brought against them.

      The main issue of the case was if consensual abh/gbh is a crime.

      Details of the ruling are here:

      http://www.cirp.org/library/legal/UKlaw/rvbrown1993/
      Jon

      "It is far more comfortable to point a finger and declare someone a devil, than to call upon your imagination to try to understand their world."


      http://www.jlrees.co.uk



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      • #33
        Hi Jon, Sam,

        I think that just goes to show how impossible it ever is to do more than guess a man's motives for mutilating the dead body of someone he has killed.

        You simply can't use the ripper crime scene evidence to establish what motivated the individual concerned.

        We could look at the modern day murder of Samantha Bisset by Robert Napper and say that because it was so similar to the murder of Mary Kelly in 1888, the motivation (whatever we think Napper's was - another difficult question, if he may not even know himself!) was likely to have been the same or similar.

        And we could be utterly and completely wrong.

        Napper could have been in an unholy rage, while Jack could have felt like a kid in a sweet shop. Or they both could have acted like robots: unemotional, methodical and trance-like. One could have had an orgasm at some point, the other not even get a semi on.

        The results could be almost identical.

        Love,

        Caz
        X
        I wish I were two puppies then I could play together - Storm Petersen

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        • #34
          Amen,Senorita Morris. Thats a good analogy. I believe A.P. has been pushing the automaton idea for a while and it,to me, is just as valid as the notion of a ssk. Roger Palmer has also gone into that area too.
          To Join JTR Forums :
          Contact Howard@jtrforums.com

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          • #35
            Hi Howie,

            My point was that 'pushing' one idea over another, regarding what buttons Jack was pressing (or hoped or thought he was pressing) could well be an exercise in futility without any evidence of who he was.

            Love,

            Caz
            X
            I wish I were two puppies then I could play together - Storm Petersen

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            • #36
              I agree Caz, which is something I hope to explore. If you notice in this thread I haven't stated that I think the Ripper was a sexual serial killer, I've only distinguished what motivates the perpetrator of that type of murder.

              I want to try and examine all the psychological myths that appear in the case, and see if there are any preconceptions that we can question. Everything from psychopathy, to sexual serial killing.
              Jon

              "It is far more comfortable to point a finger and declare someone a devil, than to call upon your imagination to try to understand their world."


              http://www.jlrees.co.uk



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              • #37
                Maybe I should have started my thread in the 'hate' sub forum, its just so many of the reasons cross dont they?

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                • #38
                  I think they probably do with quite a few different motives.
                  Jon

                  "It is far more comfortable to point a finger and declare someone a devil, than to call upon your imagination to try to understand their world."


                  http://www.jlrees.co.uk



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                  • #39
                    http://www.amandahoward.com.au/sex_or_no_sex.htm

                    Sorry, kids; ADULTS ONLY


                    Er, any relation here, Howard?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Currerbell View Post
                      Do you know if there has been a SSK since who has topped the Ripper for this kind of intense hatred?
                      Sorry to dig up an old post, yes, Peter Kurten-The Vampire of Dusseldorf, Gerald Stano, The Monster of Florence there are more but this is off the top of my head.

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                      • #41
                        The Psychology of Lust Murder
                        http://www.scribd.com/doc/7348422/Th...of-Lust-Murder

                        Complex issues at work here... the answer is not a simple "he was motivated by hate" or "if he had an erection then it was sexually motivated."

                        However, I do not think there is much doubt that the Ripper was this type of killer... specifically what Roy Hazelwood called a disorganized/asocial lust murderer.

                        Peter Kurten was a lust murderer, so was Jeffrey Dahmer.

                        A few quotes:

                        "Lust murderers exhibit a progression of brutality, and each subsequent murder becomes more vicious and sadsistic. Erotophonophiliacs establish a violently sexualized relationship in their minds that they have rehearsed repeatedly while masturbating.... They are impulsive and unable to escape their fantasy world. This is a sexualized imagined realm that is robust with themes of power, control, sex, violence and mutilation."

                        "research suggests that the assailant's thought configurations are established early and exist in a context of social isolation."

                        etc.

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                        • #42
                          More quotes on lust murder:

                          Hazelwood: "It is the authors' contention that the lust murder is unique and is distinguished from the sadistic homicide by the involvement of a mutilating attack or displacement of the breasts, rectum, or genitals."

                          "The victim's body exhibits gross mutilationand/or displacement of the breasts, rectum, or genitals, and may have been subjected to excessive stabbing or slashing with a sharp instrument."

                          "The investigator may find that the victim has been bitten on the breasts, buttocks, neck, abdomen, thighs, or genitals, as these body areas have sexual associations. Limb or breast amputation, or in some instances total dissection, may have taken place.... the asocial individual approaches his victim in much the same way as an inquisitive child with a new toy. He involves himself in an exploratory examinationof the sexually significant parts of the body in an attempt to determine how they function and appear below the surface."

                          "Penis penetration is not to be expected from the asocial individual, but is predominantly associated with the nonsocial type, even to the extent of "necrophilia." These activities on the nonsocial's part reflect his desire to outrage society and call attention to his total disdain for societal acceptance. The asocial type more commonly inserts foreign objects into body orifices in a probing and curiosity-motivated, yet brutal, manner."

                          "Frequently, the murderer will take a "souvenir," normally an object or article of clothing belonging to the victim, but occasionally it may be a more personal reminder of the encounter—a finger, a lock of hair, or a part of the body with sexual associations... as previously mentioned, the perpetrator may commit an anthropophagic act [i.e. cannibalism] and such an act is indicative of asocial involvement."

                          Individual withdraws from society which he perceives as hostile and threatening.

                          "Through this internalization process, he becomes secluded and isolated from others and may eventually select suicide as an alternative to a life of lonelines and frustration. The authors have designated this reaction to life as disorganized asocial. This type possesses a poor self image and secretly rejects the society which he feels rejects him.""

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                          • #43
                            I think I'm a bit asocial...

                            Great quotes there Rob

                            Interesting that, in a sense, the fantasies could have been escalated through excessive masturbation

                            That's definitely a good description of a possible Ripper, indicating someone who may have been somewhat of a loner in personality, or actually alone in the World

                            I'd like to see examples of lust murderers committing suicide

                            I've seen it postulated that some serial killers commit mental suicide in the sense that they become more and more daring, begging to get caught, often communicating with the police and the like

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                            • #44
                              There was speculation that some/all of the Monster of Florence murders were done at the behest of a Black Magic "cult" or similar

                              I haven't read into the claims much, surprisingly, but I think some of the female victims external genitals were supposedly removed to be used in some kind of ritual

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                              • #45
                                The Monster of Florence is a good example for comparison with the Ripper, Nemo (& R. Rowell). Some might dismiss the comparison because of the gun but, in this case, there was also the so-called "scuba knife". Left breast and vaginas were removed.

                                An SK like Il Mostro is still misplaced in the streets of London as compared to the backcountry, lovers lanes of Florence. There had to be more to the Ripper's mutilations than sex. Same for the Monster.

                                Up for some Dietrologia?

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