Maria Louisa Roulson (aka Old Ma Lechmere)

[Gary Barnett]

Yes maybe it was her doing in 1861.
Along with the false age for Thomas.
It goes with the fake widowhood on her marriage certificate and the incorrect father listed on Emily's death certificate.
And for that matter the odd Bethnal Green marriage to Forsdike.

Yes, all of those had occurred to me.

Here’s a question for you, what is the first example we know of of his using Lechmere ? Would it have been when he married?

[Gary Barnett]

Another question (for anyone who might know): where were CAL and his sister Emily actually baptised? I know the ancestry record is of the St Dunstan’s register, but looking through that there are numerous entries for children from other parishes - SGE, Limehouse, Shadwell, Whitechapel etc.

The reason I ask is because I’m curious as to what paperwork Maria took away from the event. Two baptismal certs, presumably, on one of which the names Charles Allen Lechmere and John Allen Lechmere both appeared. That may have remained as his primary form of ID for much of his life and obtaining it may have been one of the reasons why young Charles was baptised so late in life, after Maria had ‘married’ Tom Cross.

[Gary Barnett]

Another question (for anyone who might know): where were CAL and his sister Emily actually baptised? I know the ancestry record is of the St Dunstan’s register, but looking through that there are numerous entries for children from other parishes - SGE, Limehouse, Shadwell, Whitechapel etc.

The reason I ask is because I’m curious as to what paperwork Maria took away from the event. Two baptismal certs, presumably, on one of which the names Charles Allen Lechmere and John Allen Lechmere both appeared. That may have remained as his primary form of ID for much of his life and obtaining it may have been one of the reasons why young Charles was baptised so late in life, after Maria had ‘married’ Tom Cross.

Sion Square, the address given for the family in the baptismal register, was just behind St Mary Matfelon wasn’t it? Why would the children have been baptised at St Dunstan’s?

[Rob Clack]

Sion Square, the address given for the family in the baptismal register, was just behind St Mary Matfelon wasn’t it? Why would the children have been baptised at St Dunstan’s?

Just behind and a bit to the East. Kosminski lived there in 1890 I think. Mulberry Street runs of it which is runs parallel with Plumbers Row (one street to the east).

[Gary Barnett]

Just behind and a bit to the East. Kosminski lived there in 1890 I think. Mulberry Street runs of it which is runs parallel with Plumbers Row (one street to the east).

Thanks, Rob. I thought that was where it was. TC was based at Leman Street, I think. Off the top of my head I can’t recall where Maria was living when they married. I’ll look it up, perhaps that was Stepney way, which might explain a baptism at St Dunstan’s.

I’ve managed to find an old (blank) SGE baptism cert, but it would be nice to see one with the names filled in. I’m pretty sure CAL’s would have contained his surname and his father’s name.

[Gary Barnett]

Maria’s address when she ‘married’ Cross was 5, Holloway Street MEOT. I’ve never heard of it.

[Gary Barnett]

Maria’s address when she ‘married’ Cross was 5, Holloway Street MEOT. I’ve never heard of it.

It was very close to Sion Square and apparently in the ecclesiastical district of St Philip, Stepney. I’ll have to ponder that.

[Gary Barnett]

Just when you thought you had a grip on East End topography…

Although just a few yards from St Mary Matfelon, Sion Square and Holloway Street were in the Parish of St Philip, Stepney which was established as a chapel of ease within the larger parish of St Dunstan’s. The Whitechapel/St Phillip’s parish boundary is shown by the dotted line. St Philips Church itself was immediately behind the London Hospital (yes it’s that one ;-)).

The baptism registers of St Philip’s are held at the LMA. I think what we are seeing on Ancestry is a collation of all the sub parishes within the St Dunstan’s orbit. That may be complete BS, but I’ve seen something similar for SGE.

[Edward Stow]

Several issues arise from this flurry of posts...

'That' St Philips was only completed in 1892... the bloodied cloth of 1889 being found in the building works. I haven't checked when the parish was established.

I feel sure I have seen baptismal records for other sub parishes of St Dunstan's... admittedly from a little later. I think all these records are on Ancestry. I will check.

I think the first record of CAL using Lechmere as his name was on his marriage certificate on 1870. But that isn't remarkable I think.

The late baptism may as you say been to provide a form of ID. An interesting thought. Also for his sister who seems, possibly, to have been baptised earlier in Hereford... with maybe the paperwork lost?
Perhaps to establish lineage as there were inheritances. Or potential inheritances.

Yes a bit of MEOT stuck out west, like a parrots beak, into Whitechapel. This is where Sion Square and Holloway Street are located.

[Gary Barnett]

Below is from the LMA catalogue. It seems they have the St Philip’s baptismal records for 1858. If you can’t find them on Ancestry, I’ll have a look at them there next week.

Saint Philip's originated in a proprietary chapel built by local residents between 1817 and 1821, within the parish of Saint Dunstan's (P93/DUN). The building work involved several difficulties and came in vastly over-budget, resulting in an expensive law-suit against the builder. The chapel Trustees asked for funds from the Church Building Commission, which were provided on the condition that the chapel be legally conveyed to the Commissioners to become a parish church. The church was consecrated in 1823 and assigned a district in 1836.

By 1883 the new vicar found the building in a disastrous and disgraceful state of dilapidation. A new church was built and was consecrated on October 12 1892. After the Second World War, the parishes of Saint Augustine (P93/AUG) and Saint Philip were united and the church was then known as Saint Augustine with Saint Philip. It was declared redundant in 1979 and united with Saint Dunstans and All Saints, Stepney (P93/DUN). The building is now used as the library of the London Hospital.

[Gary Barnett]

This was the original church:

[Gary Barnett]

Somehow or other, the new church was built on top of the old one (?) The cutting is from the ELA of 9th March, 1889.

[Gary Barnett]

Although the new church wasn’t consecrated until 1892, the foundation stone carries the date ‘July 18th 1888’.

[Gary Barnett]

Since Maria lived in St Philip’s parish for a time, this was presumably her place of worship, assuming she was of a religious disposition.

[Gary Barnett]

I wonder why Maria and Tom tied the knot in a Register Office? Perhaps they hadn’t been in London (or a particular parish) long enough to qualify.