Maria Louisa Roulson (aka Old Ma Lechmere)

[Gary Barnett]

‘Paralysis Exhaustion’

https://academic.oup.com/brain/article-abstract/11/2/208/255966?redirectedFrom=fulltext

[Gary Barnett]

Was Rachel’s condition triggered by her old man running off with a younger woman? If so, and the couple married bigamously a few weeks later and returned to the house where Rachel had died … ? That’d be a bit callous, wouldn’t it?

I can’t remember off the top of my head when/where/how Maria died. Do we have her death cert? If not, I’ll send off for it.

[R. J. Palmer]

The informant was a Sarah Lockwood of 19, Philip Street, SGE.

Thanks for chasing this down and posting it, Gary.

Sarah Lockwood was presumably Rachel's sister? The 1871 Census has Sarah married to a John William Lockwood at the address given, and a quick look at UK marriages shows that he married a Sarah Cuthburt/Cuthbert in 1844. Cuthburt was Rachel's maiden name on her marriage cert. to Forsdyke.

[Gary Barnett]

Thanks for chasing this down and posting it, Gary.

Sarah Lockwood was presumably Rachel's sister? The 1871 Census has Sarah married to a John William Lockwood at the address given, and a quick look at UK marriages shows that he married a Sarah Cuthburt/Cuthbert in 1844. Cuthburt was Rachel's maiden name on her marriage cert. to Forsdyke.

Ah, that’s interesting, thanks RJ.

I’ve sent off for Maria’s death cert. She died in 1902 in SGE, either in her shop in Old Gravel Lane or the Raine Street infirmary I would imagine. I don’t suppose it’ll contain anything earth shattering, but it will provide the full stop to her story.

[Gary Barnett]

Maria Louisa Forsdike, aged 77, died on the 22nd December, 1902 at 18, Old Gravel Lane, Wapping. The cause of her death was influenza and broncho-pneumonia. No occupation was recorded, she was shown as the widow of Joseph Forsdike, a boot maker. The informant was her son, C. A. Lechmere of 24, Carlton Road, Mile End, who was present at the death. The death was certified by J. Reidy L. R. C. P. and registered on 22nd December, 1902.

This all sounds very familiar. I hope I haven’t posted it before.

[Gary Barnett]

Maria Louisa Forsdike, aged 77, died on the 22nd December, 1902 at 18, Old Gravel Lane, Wapping. The cause of her death was influenza and broncho-pneumonia. No occupation was recorded, she was shown as the widow of Joseph Forsdike, a boot maker. The informant was her son, C. A. Lechmere of 24, Carlton Road, Mile End, who was present at the death. The death was certified by J. Reidy L. R. C. P. and registered on 22nd December, 1902.

This all sounds very familiar. I hope I haven’t posted it before.

I remember overhearing that some ancient member of our family ‘’ad the ‘flu and got took’ - i.e. contracted influenza and died. They opened the window and in flew Enza.

Perhaps CAL was a doting son who devoted his limited spare time to his mother’s final hours. Perhaps we’ve misunderstood him all along.

[Gary Barnett]

Did Maria leave a will? She had run businesses and she was possibly still receiving money from her parents’ estates when she died, so she must have left something behind.

I think I’m right in saying that some of her London-based in-laws were also in the grain business. I wonder who took over the Old Gravel Lane shop after she died.

[R. J. Palmer]

Rachel Forsdike died at 6, Splidts Terrace on 17th April, 1872. Her cause of death was ‘Paralysis Exhaustion’. The informant was a Sarah Lockwood of 19, Philip Street, SGE.

I haven't crossed the T's and dotted the I's, but it looks like Forsdyke first married Rachel's sister in 1836. "Bell Eliza Cuthburt." She presumably died, and he then married Rachel in 1839. Or at least both wife one and wife two shared the last name 'Cuthburt/Cuthbert," so I'm assuming sisters or cousins. It might have been a bit bitter for the Cuthburts to see Forsdyke marrying so soon after his 30 + year marriage to one of their own.







Forsdyke also has connections to Llaneli, Carmarthenshire--his family owned a pub there. Maybe Ed Stow is working a Mary Kelly angle thru Forsdyke. ;-)

[Gary Barnett]

I haven't crossed the T's and dotted the I's, but it looks like Forsdyke first married Rachel's sister in 1836. "Bell Eliza Cuthburt." She presumably died, and he then married Rachel in 1839. Or at least both wife one and wife two shared the last name 'Cuthburt/Cuthbert," so I'm assuming sisters or cousins. It might have been a bit bitter for the Cuthburts to see Forsdyke marrying so soon after his 30 + year marriage to one of their own.







Forsdyke also has connections to Llaneli, Carmarthenshire--his family owned a pub there. Maybe Ed Stow is working a Mary Kelly angle thru Forsdyke. ;-)

I wasn’t aware of a Welsh connection. He was a Suffolk man I believe, and the name is quite common in East Anglia. When did the Forsdykes have their Welsh pub?

[Gary Barnett]

It was a Jeremiah Forsdyke who ran the pub in Llanelli. Is he the same man as the carpenter named Jeremiah Forsdike who married Mary Ann Newman in Hatton Garden in 1844 and whose witnesses were Joseph and Rachel Forsdike?

[R. J. Palmer]

I wasn’t aware of a Welsh connection. He was a Suffolk man I believe, and the name is quite common in East Anglia. When did the Forsdykes have their Welsh pub?

Here's what I'm looking at, Gary.

Joseph lists "Noah Forsdyke," carpenter, as his father on his marriage cert. to Rachel in 1839.

There's a Noah Forsdyke, master house carpenter, in the 1861 Wales census at the 'Prince Albert' in New Dock Road, Llaneli. His place of birth is listed as Otley, Suffolk, which rings a bell. I think one of Joseph wives was from there? I don't remember off-hand.

It states the pub was run by Elizabeth Forsdyke, and he's the father-in-law.

Edit: Apparently that birthplace for Noah should be Otley, Suffolk, and not Oakley.

[Gary Barnett]

It seems the Jeremiah who ran the pub had been a seaman previously - a master mariner no less. The father of Jeremiah the carpenter who married in London and whose witnesses were Joseph and Rachel was another Jeremiah. I haven’t looked for an Ancestry tree, but perhaps Jeremiah senior and Noah were brothers, one of the junior Jeremiahs, the seaman/publican, was Joseph’s brother and the other, the Hatton Garden carpenter, was his cousin.

[R. J. Palmer]

I haven’t looked for an Ancestry tree, but perhaps Jeremiah senior and Noah were brothers, one of the junior Jeremiahs, the seaman/publican, was Joseph’s brother and the other, the Hatton Garden carpenter, was his cousin.

This looks correct. I see now there's a lady from Wigan who has an extensive family tree for the Forsdikes of Otley, Suffolk. She even has private photographs of many of them, including Joseph of SGE.

[Gary Barnett]

This looks correct. I see now there's a lady from Wigan who has an extensive family tree for the Forsdikes of Otley, Suffolk. She even has private photographs of many of them, including Joseph of SGE.

Yes, I saw there were some private photos, which is rather frustrating, but they could be anything. I have some Suffolk ancestors with rather appropriate surnames for the low-lying marshy areas of East Anglia such as Fynn, Fenn and, most amusing of all, Frog. This is the image that someone has attached to my ancestor Mary Frog:

[Gary Barnett]

I’ve had mixed success in the past when I’ve attempted to extract info from Ancestry contributors about case-related individuals.

But who knows, there may be, or I could pretend there is, a connection between the Fynns, Fens, Frogs etc and the Forsdykes - a dyke being the term used for a drainage channel in East Anglia. My Frogs may well have frolicked in the Fors’s dyke.

Pathetic attempts at humour aside, the family connection of Joe F to South Wales via a seafaring cousin (possibly) is very interesting. Not because of a potential MJK link, but because it enriches our knowledge of someone connected to the Lechmeres.