Maria Louisa Roulson (aka Old Ma Lechmere)

[Gary Barnett]

If it is the correct Thomas Cross from Hereford, he wasn't too far from Maria Roulson. I've always wondered if Maria knew Thomas Cross back then, perhaps this even being the reason for Pa Lechmere clearing off.

Who knows CAL could have been a Cross all along. It would certainly explain some things.

I hadn't considered that, but you never know...

[Gary Barnett]

EBC had a London pad in Grafton Street. Among his neighbours were:

The Countess of Pembroke,
Viscount Dungannon,
The Marquess of Salisbury,
Lady Hart Garnier,
and Lord St Helens (his next door neighbour. See link).

His Herefordshire butler may never have seen it. It's extremely unlikely, I would have thought, that the butler's daughter ever did, but she may well have encountered the likes of the ladies and gents above in Whitfield. She'd certainly have had more exposure to 'quality' than your average East Ender.

http://www.thefullwiki.org/Alleyne_F...aron_St_Helens

[Gary Barnett]

Here's some info on EBC:

http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1820-1832/member/clive-edward-1765-1845

[Gary Barnett]

This is the only photo I can find of EBC's Herefordshire pile, Whitfield. From there to Tiger Bay was a long, long way.

[Gary Barnett]

Here is a lodge on the Whitfield Estate, but it may not be the one Thomas Roulson and his family occupied. Apparently there was another one closer to the house which was demolished in the late 20th century.

[Gary Barnett]

If it is the correct Thomas Cross from Hereford, he wasn't too far from Maria Roulson. I've always wondered if Maria knew Thomas Cross back then, perhaps this even being the reason for Pa Lechmere clearing off.

Who knows CAL could have been a Cross all along. It would certainly explain some things.

Ed has reminded me that Thomas Cross was considerably younger than Maria. He would have been around 15 when Charles was born in London.

For balance, here's some info on Fownhope Court, the seat of the Lechmeres.

https://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A0WTTcqVv31Zym0AJZPw3olQ;_ylu=X3oDMTIzb3R0cDRsBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZAMzNWU3NmVmM2M3MjNlY2Y2ZGNiMTkyMmE5MjJlYjIwNwRncG9zAzI0BGl0A2Jpbmc-?.origin=&back=https%3A%2F%2Fuk.images.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Dfownhope%2Blechmere%26n%3D60%26ei%3DUTF-8%26fr%3Diphone%26fr2%3Dsb-top-uk.images.search.yahoo.com%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D24&w=250&h=207&imgurl=ogimages.bl.uk%2Fimages%2F003%2F003KTOP00000015U10700000%5BSVC1%5D.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bl.uk%2Fonlinegallery%2Fonlineex%2Fkinggeorge%2Ff%2F003ktop00000015u10700000.html&size=20.6KB&name=%3Cb%3EFownhope%3C%2Fb%3E&p=fownhope+lechmere&oid=35e76ef3c723ecf6dcb1922a922eb207&fr2=sb-top-uk.images.search.yahoo.com&fr=iphone&tt=%3Cb%3EFownhope%3C%2Fb%3E&b=0&ni=60&no=24&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=12iet6dva&sigb=14kqshpar&sigi=11sm8cah0&sigt=10fels0sp&sign=10fels0sp&.crumb=FdSe4v4br4L&fr=iphone&fr2=sb-top-uk.images.search.yahoo.com

[Gary Barnett]

I think this must be Thomas Cross on the 1851 census, aged 14.

[Robert Linford]

The Forsdike Saga.

[Gary Barnett]

Is this Tom (50H) getting duffed up in 1864?

From the Morning Advertiser 2nd Feb., 1864:

[Gary Barnett]

The Forsdike Saga.

Preferred The Perishers myself.

[Sam Flynn]

The Forsdike Saga.

Good old Bill Tidy! Found this one:



"WELL, INSPECTOR... THAT'S THE LAST OF THE SEASIDE MURDERERS"

[Dusty Miller]

>>Ed has reminded me that Thomas Cross was considerably younger than Maria. He would have been around 15 when Charles was born in London.<<

I don't have a problem with the age issue and sex (at least as far as research goes;-), my only concern is that Cross may not have come from Herefordshire.

[Gary Barnett]

>>Ed has reminded me that Thomas Cross was considerably younger than Maria. He would have been around 15 when Charles was born in London.<<

I don't have a problem with the age issue and sex (at least as far as research goes;-), my only concern is that Cross may not have come from Herefordshire.

What makes you say that, Dusty?

The 1861 census clearly shows him as having been born in the same county as Maria and her daughter.

[Dusty Miller]

The lack of a town or village by that name. If I remember correctly Chris Scott thought it might be a mistake for Hertfordshire.

And wasn't the age wrong too?

I hope you're right, then my theory might still stand!

[Gary Barnett]

The lack of a town or village by that name. If I remember correctly Chris Scott thought it might be a mistake for Hertfordshire.

And wasn't the age wrong too?

I hope you're right, then my theory might still stand!

It looks like Breinton to me, where the 14-year-old TC was born. Breinton is a few miles outside of Hereford.

The age is out by a couple of years from the marriage cert. That shows him as 23, whereas the Breinton lad would have been 20/1.