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Jack's childhood perhaps?

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    How, I think post WW2 social change has a lot to answer for and the rise of feminism/ 'wimmin's lib' whatever you want to call it. Having said that though, none of this explains someone like Mary Ann Cotton. But as she's a one-off, we have no need to explain her in terms other than a one off.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Very true How- re women being self-absorbed losers to begin with.

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  • Howard Brown
    replied
    Very good point Stephen about the priests and molestation .

    Yet what I was trying to point out to Jon, Stephen....was the excuses or reasons tossed up in our time as opposed to say 50 years ago and how the basis is or are vastly different.

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  • Howard Brown
    replied
    Jon:

    As with crimes by children, which has always been there, crimes by mothers have been around. Its partly because of the new sort of reasons offered for their crimes.
    What is disturbing to me is that in the cases of these mothers who do commit crimes against their own, its not because they are oppressed or beaten by men, its because they are inferior people. Inferior in the sense that they should have never had children because they themselves never matured. I haven't seen too many cases Jon, of mothers flipping out because they were evicted from their homes or that they didn't have food for their children...its simply because their children are in the way of what they want to do because they are self absorbed losers in the first place.

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  • Big Jon
    replied
    Originally posted by Stephen Leece View Post
    Jon, you're a good mate, but never ever link anything I say with that vulgar fraud Freud
    I thought it was a bit below the belt! I'll buy you a drink to make up for it in October!

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    How, you are assuming that you have all the data- 50 years ago this sort of thing wouldn't be reported. Ditto child molestation by priests to name one example; it was all swept under the carpet. This spike you speak of may be artificial, and it wouldn't surprise me if it was.
    Jon, you're a good mate, but never ever link anything I say with that vulgar fraud Freud

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  • Big Jon
    replied
    Originally posted by How Brown View Post
    Indeed Stephen...whats disturbing as of late is the escalating number of mothers, who while having things far easier on average than women in the 1950's ...are committing crimes that are mindboggling in terms of viciousness and callousness towards their own. In 55 plus years, I have never seen any specific crime category spike like this one has, unless one wanted to include the negro fad of carjacking which has abated at least here in the States.
    Are these crimes happening more, or are they just being reported/prosecuted/publicised more is the question though. Perhaps women have always been this vicious, but it's only these days we hear about it!

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  • Howard Brown
    replied
    Mothers

    Indeed Stephen...whats disturbing as of late is the escalating number of mothers, who while having things far easier on average than women in the 1950's ...are committing crimes that are mindboggling in terms of viciousness and callousness towards their own. In 55 plus years, I have never seen any specific crime category spike like this one has, unless one wanted to include the negro fad of carjacking which has abated at least here in the States.

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  • Big Jon
    replied
    Originally posted by Stephen Leece View Post
    Children have an innocence? Do they? Where? I've seen under 10s try and rape a fully-grown woman. I've seen little kids torture animals. Anecdotal evidence I know, but I've got it by the bucket load. Chidren are not born innocent- it's a quaint, comforting idea, but in reality they acquire innocence, through their parents primarilly in the first 5 years or so of their life, their teachers for the remaining 11 at least, their environment and who they interract with during and for the rest of the time.
    A built in carnal desire, followed by acquisition of morals in formative years? A bit too Freudian for my taste. Personally I'd prescribe to the idea that children are more likely to learn violent acts and emulate them.

    But each to his own.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Children have an innocence? Do they? Where? I've seen under 10s try and rape a fully-grown woman. I've seen little kids torture animals. Anecdotal evidence I know, but I've got it by the bucket load. Chidren are not born innocent- it's a quaint, comforting idea, but in reality they acquire innocence, through their parents primarilly in the first 5 years or so of their life, their teachers for the remaining 11 at least, their environment and who they interract with during and for the rest of the time.

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  • Big Jon
    replied
    I agree with the part about women - I personally believe they can be just as cruel (and sometimes more so) as men. But children have an innocence and vulnerability, so I understand why it is shocking when they do horrific things.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Do you not think studying and dealing with these kinds of crimes would be a lot easier if we stopped putting women, and children especially on pedestals?
    This cult of the child gets up my nose.
    Little boys and girls are not always made of sugar and spice and all things nice. Cases like this, Mary Bell, Thompson and Venables, that lass that said "I don't like Mondays," the amazingly named Linda Loveless, demonstrate that children are as capable of extreme acts of violence and cruelty as adults are.
    A woman's capability to grow a child inside her then give birth to it, does not make her less capable of committing a serious crime than the sperm-donor of a man is.
    Get over this faux feminism, and false child worship and start dealing with the reality of human nature. To claim to be horrified by acts of women or children these days to me indicates someone has their head buried firmly in the sand, or someone who really needs to spend more time with women and children. Or alternatively the feelings of revulsion are simply put on for show. Whatever the case I don't trust anyone who is still shocked by violent or neglectful acts committed by children and women.
    Just an opinion of course...

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  • Big Jon
    replied
    Howard,

    Unfortunately female crime is not one of my interests (I only know they tend to commit fraud and shoplifting more than men), so don't know of any figures or studies.



    Nemo,

    Joe Public doesn't want to understand the why's. They are perfectly happy and content with the labels "monsters", "evil" and indeed "creatures".

    But the sad fact is a child is not born with three 6's on their heads (while perhaps there might be some genetic vulnerability or predisposition to violence) - they become it through their upbringing.

    Assigning blame is difficult though - should the kids have been taken away from their mother? Almost definetly.

    Might it have prevented this, or was the damage already done? We can never know.

    It's just clear that some people are not fit to be, and should not be parents.

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  • Howard Brown
    replied
    "If he smacked the boys for being naughty she would just tell them to tell him to F off, it doesn't matter"

    This is just another example of the alarming number of mothers who are enablers of this sort of behavior in Edlington we find growing in disproportionate numbers.

    Locally, in Delaware, a woman smashed her vehicle into another vehicle, fled the scene, leaving her 10 year old daughter behind. The daughter was injured. The mother ran off because she had warrants pending her arrest for other charges.

    I can't think of any element in crime research or crime study which has spiked to the degree as much as criminal behavior on the part of women ...specifically mothers and those in positions of authority...has as of late...in the US and sadly, the UK as well. Its horrible and contributory to even more unadaptable people to society in the future.

    Hopefully, in Europe, its not as bad.

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  • Paul Kearney A.K.A. NEMO
    replied
    Hi Jon

    I don't think Joe Public would be interested in considering these creatures as products of their environment

    Would you put blame on the family or the wider World?

    All I know is that if they had attacked one of my children then the first person to find them wouldn't have been the police

    It's heart-breaking to consider that some of the worst cruelty in this world is enacted by "children"

    This must be one of the most harrowing cases that has appeared in modern times - or at any other time for that matter

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