"Skewering The Ripperologists" Bad Women Podcast- Hallie Rubenhold

[Trevor Marriott]

Whether it is or whether it isn't 'misleading', there are more followers on Twitter expressing consternation at the things you said on that podcast. I appreciate that you can't see it this way, but HR engaged with you on Twitter, having blocked everyone else, because she could play you like a virtuoso - which she did. You'd have been wise if you'd backed off that podcast, like everyone else did, because it unashamedly promoted HR and was not a corrective. You achieved nothing but to give her followers the chance to present you as the representative of Ripperology, which you are very much not.

There were no derogatory remarks made about Hallie I told it how I personally saw her book and her research, you and others had the opportunity to do the same but you all decided to not take part, which I find strange because it was the right opportunity to tell the true facts from a ripperology perspective without being blocked, and it is time you stopped whining!!!!!!

and for your information she didnt play me like a virtuoso I never had any contact with her in the making of the podcast

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Paul]

There were no derogatory remarks made about Hallie I told it how I personally saw her book and her research, you and others had the opportunity to do the same but you all decided to not take part, which I find strange because it was the right opportunity to tell the true facts from a ripperology perspective without being blocked, and it is time you stopped whining!!!!!!

and for your information she didnt play me like a virtuoso I never had any contact with her in the making of the podcast

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

It might help you to understand things if you actually read what was being said to you. I just explained to you that invited authors recognised that the whole podcast was unashamedly promoting Rubenhold, and was not an opportunity to challenge her story, which is what it proved to be. I would not have appeared on the podcast for the same reasons, but I wasn't invited. So, to reiterate, the podcast was most definitely NOT the opportunity to tell the true facts. but as usual it appears to be your assessment being out of step with others.

And for your information, I did not say she played you like a virtuoso on the podcast, but that she did so when you engaged with her on Twitter and fell right into her hands with your now notorious 'joke' about lawnmowers. Why the hell do you think she blocked almost everyone else who criticised her book, but engaged with you? As I say, I can understand that it's a tough thing to admit, but she engaged with you because you were pliable and she recognised it. She played you and you walked right into it. As for the podcast, there were comments on Twitter to the effect that you said the victims almost deserved their fate. Whatever your precise words were, you have clearly been used - again!

None of which is the point, though. The point is that a wiser head than yours would have steered clear of the podcast in light of the way you were previously played. All you seem to have achieved is to be raised as the representative of Ripperologists, which you are not.

It's not wining, Trevor. Although I wouldn't expect you to realise that.

[Paul]

Does anyone know which episode (and preferably whereabouts within the episode) the interview with Trevor Marriott is?

And also whether it's possible to listen to the podcast without signing up to one of the services listed?

I'm not sure. I'll ask.

[Paul]

It's also worth remembering, Trevor, that Mark Ripper quoted some comments about correct historical methodology by a very distinguished historian, Sir Richard Evans. Evans wrote them in a book about David Irving. Mark stated very clearly that he was not of course drawing any comparison between Hallie Rubenhold and David Irving, and he even made it clear that Rubenhold and Irving were in completely different leagues, but Hallie Rubenhold almost immediately told her followers that Ripperologists had likened her to a Holocaust denier. And repeated that claim whenever she could. Even if you had said nothing outrageous or controversial or contentious, the chances are that you would have been shamelessly used.

[Howard Brown]

I haven't and won't listen to any of Rube The Boob's podcasts.....but for those who might want to learn that Kate Eddowes was the Joni Mitchell of the East End, here's the latest episode :

Kate Eddowes rejected the drudgery of conventional working class life and left the factory and hearth to roam the open road. She travelled the country, performing and selling songs she had written with her partner. But her existence was far from carefree and her lover turned violent. Eventually, Kate ended up penniless in Whitechapel - and an easy target for the Ripper.

https://www.pushkin.fm/episode/e9-th...-kate-eddowes/

[Paul]

I haven't and won't listen to any of Rube The Boob's podcasts.....but for those who might want to learn that Kate Eddowes was the Joni Mitchell of the East End, here's the latest episode :

Kate Eddowes rejected the drudgery of conventional working class life and left the factory and hearth to roam the open road. She travelled the country, performing and selling songs she had written with her partner. But her existence was far from carefree and her lover turned violent. Eventually, Kate ended up penniless in Whitechapel - and an easy target for the Ripper.

https://www.pushkin.fm/episode/e9-th...-kate-eddowes/

How soon it will all be accepted as fact.

[Howard Brown]

Ain't no stopping the Clown Princess, is there ?

Kate Eddowes was murdered in a dark London square in the dead of the night. What had she been doing there? It seems improbable that she was selling sex... and the more likely explanation totally upends the idea that Jack the Ripper posed as a "John" to launch brutal his attacks.

Lemme guess....she was sitting on a discarded beer keg, carefully writing down the lyrics to what would be her next hit ballad 'These Boots Were Made For Pawnin'"

https://www.pushkin.fm/episode/e10-in-a-dark-dark-corner/

[Gary Barnett]

Ain't no stopping the Clown Princess, is there ?

Kate Eddowes was murdered in a dark London square in the dead of the night. What had she been doing there? It seems improbable that she was selling sex... and the more likely explanation totally upends the idea that Jack the Ripper posed as a "John" to launch brutal his attacks.

Lemme guess....she was sitting on a discarded beer keg, carefully writing down the lyrics to what would be her next hit ballad 'These Boots Were Made For Pawnin'"



https://www.pushkin.fm/episode/e10-i...k-dark-corner/

Perhaps someone should write an article plotting the development of the ‘Ballad of Kate’ idea from the meagre contemporary evidence to the full-blown Lesley Garrett nonsense of Eddowes being a well-known composer and singer of ballads ‘in the operatic style’.

As we know, there is no credible evidence that Eddowes - or Conway - ever even sold ballads, let alone composed and performed them.

I’m not volunteering. :-)

[Paul]

We joke, and believe me we have to do that, but I find it hard to escape this feeling that we're listening to Nero fiddling and getting an occasional whiff of smoke, but not noticing Rome being burned around us. I know that's not happening, but the feeling isn't pleasant.

[Gary Barnett]

We joke, and believe me we have to do that, but I find it hard to escape this feeling that we're listening to Nero fiddling and getting an occasional whiff of smoke, but not noticing Rome being burned around us. I know that's not happening, but the feeling isn't pleasant.

I wasn’t joking, Paul.

Why not meet the threat head on?

[Gary Barnett]

I wasn’t joking, Paul.

Why not meet the threat head on?

The meagre contemporary sources went through the hands of: Aristotle Tump (Black Country Bugle), Jarrett Kobek (May My End a Warning Be) and Hallie Rubenhold (The Five) before the renowned historian Lesley Garrett (the Sun) got to the ‘truth’ through her entirely independent research.

Perhaps we could enlist Drew Grey to investigate the validity of their methodologies.

[D.J.Adams]

Drew Carey perhaps

[Gary Barnett]

Drew Carey perhaps

I had to Google him. :-)

Of course I meant Drew Gray (not Grey) of Northampton Uni.

[Paul]

I had to Google him. :-)

Of course I meant Drew Gray (not Grey) of Northampton Uni.

I think we are probably up to speed with the methodologies, but we lack the academic clout to be on equal terms with Rubenhold and her supporters (on Twitter at least). Ripperologists and Ripperology is treated with contempt, and Hallie Rubenhold does her very best to promote that view. I have a horrible feeling that someone like Drew would draw back from getting involved in an academic row with Rubenhold, because in real world terms our subject is very small beer. My argument s that size doesn't matter, and that Jack the Ripper is a legitimate subject for historical study, but the difficulty is getting people to realise that.

[Gary Barnett]

I think we are probably up to speed with the methodologies, but we lack the academic clout to be on equal terms with Rubenhold and her supporters (on Twitter at least). Ripperologists and Ripperology is treated with contempt, and Hallie Rubenhold does her very best to promote that view. I have a horrible feeling that someone like Drew would draw back from getting involved in an academic row with Rubenhold, because in real world terms our subject is very small beer. My argument s that size doesn't matter, and that Jack the Ripper is a legitimate subject for historical study, but the difficulty is getting people to realise that.

We are up to speed, but the rest of the world isn’t and the vast majority of humanity will probably never give a toss. I just think a well-written account of how the Ballad of Kate myth came into being would be a useful weapon to have in our arsenal. Kate Eddowes doesn’t need to have had a musical talent to deserve our sympathy. Why was one created? What motivated those who had a hand in doing so?

The irony is that contrary to what HR is claiming, the victims have attracted far more interest and sympathy as a result of how they died than any other group of East End women. How many books, articles etc have been written about Eliza Gould for instance? Was her life less tragic than her sister’s? What’s worse, slowly dying of hunger and exposure on the streets of the East End or having your throat cut there?

If we concocted an imaginary talent for Eliza, would people be more interested in her?