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Assault By John Morgenstern

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  • Assault By John Morgenstern

    I don't know if this fellow is part of the Morgenstern's in Kelly research or not.....but I figured it would be worthwhile to post.
    You'll notice his surname is spelled Morganstren, but that has to be a typo.

    East London Advertiser
    November 16, 1889
    ****************


  • #2
    Not to mention the name "M'Carty". And I never sorted out the supposed connexion between the Morgensterns and a Limehouse brothel.
    The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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    • #3
      The age is slightly out but there's a good chance it is Adrianus Morgenstern's brother John who also used the name Felix. His partner was Elizabeth Boeuki. The family were at West India dock Rd in 1891.

      Excellent find, How

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      • #4
        Yes, very interesting, How. I think Jamaica Passage was one of the most notorious streets in the area.

        As Debra and Anna say, this was the area where the little clique from the corner of Pennington Street and Breezers Hill moved to.

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        • #5
          Thanks, folks.
          This is just one of a few items in the ELA that have popped up of interest lately.

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          • #6
            I checked the family of Mary Ann Woodhouse nee McCarthy who was living at Rich St Limehouse in 1891 but was living at 79 Pennington St when she married in 1887, I couldn't see a Norah in the family though. Was just curious.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
              The age is slightly out but there's a good chance it is Adrianus Morgenstern's brother John who also used the name Felix. His partner was Elizabeth Boeuki. The family were at West India dock Rd in 1891.

              Excellent find, How
              I agree an outstanding find, Howie.

              Debs I thought the Sheldens found, in the 1891 census, Adrienus Felix (ne Morgestern) and Elizabeth Felix (ne Phoenix), along with his daughter Anna, living at 20 Cordelia Street, Poplar. Next door to Rose Moriarty at #22, who gave a statement in the Sadler caper. Cordelia St. is not far at all from West India Dock Rd.

              Or was John Morganstern also coupled with a woman named Elizabeth? There were two (2) Elizabeth Felixes or Boueki's?

              Roy

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Roy Corduroy View Post
                I agree an outstanding find, Howie.

                Debs I thought the Sheldens found, in the 1891 census, Adrienus Felix (ne Morgestern) and Elizabeth Felix (ne Phoenix), along with his daughter Anna, living at 20 Cordelia Street, Poplar. Next door to Rose Moriarty at #22, who gave a statement in the Sadler caper. Cordelia St. is not far at all from West India Dock Rd.

                Or was John Morganstern also coupled with a woman named Elizabeth? There were two (2) Elizabeth Felixes or Boueki's?

                Roy
                Elizabeth Felix/Phoenix is a different woman from Elizabeth Boeku/Bockee/Buki.
                The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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                • #9
                  Not sure if this helps but :

                  In the 1891 Census :

                  John Morgenstern Married 51, Skin Dresser, Working Born Holland

                  This is what Debs has already posted a few posts back.
                  As Debs said, the age is slightly out.
                  The John Morgenstern in the E.L.A. article would have been born in 1849 if his reported age of 40 in the article is correct...or 42 in 1891.
                  The John Morgenstern Debs mentioned would have been born in 1840, give or take. In the 1891 Census he's listed as being 51.
                  Hmmmmm....

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
                    Elizabeth Felix/Phoenix is a different woman from Elizabeth Boeku/Bockee/Buki.
                    Oh Okay thanks. And each of these Elizabeths were married/cohabited to a separate Morganstern brother. Elizabeth Felix/Phoenix to Andranius and Elizabeth Boueki' to John. Is that what you are saying, Anna? I am trying to catch up here. I did not have that final e-book thingie the Sheldens did. And it was Elizabeth Felix/Phoenix who came forward to give a statement shortly after the Mary Kelly murder. Right?

                    Roy

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Roy Corduroy View Post
                      Oh Okay thanks. And each of these Elizabeths were married/cohabited to a separate Morganstern brother. Elizabeth Felix/Phoenix to Andranius and Elizabeth Boueki' to John. Is that what you are saying, Anna? I am trying to catch up here. I did not have that final e-book thingie the Sheldens did. And it was Elizabeth Felix/Phoenix who came forward to give a statement shortly after the Mary Kelly murder. Right?

                      Roy
                      Correct on all points as I understand it. (I don't have Sheldens' book either but this is what I have pieced together.)
                      The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
                        Not sure if this helps but :

                        In the 1891 Census :

                        John Morgenstern Married 51, Skin Dresser, Working Born Holland

                        This is what Debs has already posted a few posts back.
                        As Debs said, the age is slightly out.
                        The John Morgenstern in the E.L.A. article would have been born in 1849 if his reported age of 40 in the article is correct...or 42 in 1891.
                        The John Morgenstern Debs mentioned would have been born in 1840, give or take. In the 1891 Census he's listed as being 51.
                        Hmmmmm....
                        He could have been a relative perhaps? I have never heard of the basic Morgenstern group, Adrianus, Maran, John, being in legal trouble. Are we certain which Morgenstern MJK lived with? Maybe it was a relative of one of the above.
                        The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Nice one Howard and thanks for posting it.

                          Probably a long shot but from the same area in 1887, Honora Cotton was living at #8 Artichoke Hill. She was involved in the Charles Hammond stabbing case. Not the same Hammond by the way as Cleveland Street. She was referred to as "Nora" in the court transcript. Could she be the same person as Nora M'Carty?

                          https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/brow...orah#highlight

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                          • #14
                            Not sure if this direct link site will come up.. but all references to any John Morgenstern (8 off) from 1840 to 1940 in the BMD herewith.. https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl


                            Phil
                            from 1905...to 19.05..it was written in the stars

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                            • #15
                              Looks like John married 1865.. had two children called John who died aged 0 years and 7 years. It appears John senior did indeed die in 1897.

                              Phil
                              from 1905...to 19.05..it was written in the stars

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