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The Trial and Crimes, Background of Ethel Le Neve

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  • #16
    Hi Deb,

    I think Ethel did stay the night. just gut instinct but my gut tells me she did and while she might not of helped Crippen with the murder I think she is guilty of looking the other way.

    Ethel Le Neve strikes me as a passive person as I think of her personality. Not a bad person but not following the straight and narrow either.

    All,

    Regarding Crippen and children, I feel that Crippen had an aversion to them. His first wife dies while pregnant and Cora couldn't have any supposedly because of an operation which Crippen might of given her?

    Le Neve had a Miscarriage/abortion and I wonder if that rendered her sterile as there is no record of her having children leading me to believe that Crippen gave her the abortion and rendered her sterile at the same time so he wouldn't have any more children.

    Crippen had a son though from his first wife but he had the most distant relationship with Crippen Jr from the beginning what I was able to dig up.

    Anyways I always felt there was something more to Crippen's regard to children and how the threat of having them effected his relationship with women. Just food for thought. Crippen is such a complex character he is hard to flesh out so I thought I would share this assumption or theory and see what you all thought of it.

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    • #17
      But...

      Originally posted by George Lorton View Post
      ...
      ...
      Le Neve had a Miscarriage/abortion and I wonder if that rendered her sterile as there is no record of her having children leading me to believe that Crippen gave her the abortion and rendered her sterile at the same time so he wouldn't have any more children.
      ...
      But Ethel Neve married one Stanley Smith after her return to England in 1914. They had a son and daughter together and these children were tracked down a few years back by Jonathan Goodman who the did a radio interview with them.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by George Lorton View Post
        Le Neve had a Miscarriage/abortion and I wonder if that rendered her sterile as there is no record of her having children leading me to believe that Crippen gave her the abortion and rendered her sterile at the same time so he wouldn't have any more children.
        Hi George,

        Ethel Neave / le Neve / Harvey had two children by her later marriage to Stanley Smith, so, if Crippen had planned to sterilise her, as you speculate, he didn't manage it.

        She died in 1967 without mentioning to her children that she had once been one of the most notorious women in the world, and the story goes that, when they found out later, they were quite astonished. She'd seen out her final years grumpy and toothless - quite a remove from the glamour of 1910.

        Regards,

        Mark
        I bet your Ripper feels better now.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Livia Trivia View Post
          The people the Crippens socialized with were retired show people. Their standards of morality were far more lax than most everyone else's, then and now.
          What a bizarre thing to say, and not a little offensive.

          PHILIP
          Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd

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          • #20
            m_w_r and SPE,

            I knew Ethel married but I did not know that she had kids when I wrote that post. Still I think Crippen did not want kids as he only had one, who he did not raise.

            Plus the points I made in my first post regarding the strange death of Charlotte Crippen and Cora not even having children. Still thanks for the information. Crippen did not want or like kids.

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            • #21
              Hi Phillip, perhaps that could be regarded as offensive but it was the truth in a way as Theatre or show folk did have not a loose set of morals but different standard of morality then your basic man on the street. I'm not saying that they were bad folks or lazy just that performers have always lived in their own community, especially back then when they were mostly ostracized by society and the ordinary folks.

              I wanted to post here regarding Ethel Le Neve though. I made a post in another topic and I feel that I did Ms Le Neve a terrible disservice.

              -Regarding Le Neve's miscarriage of Feb 1910, I feel that Crippen might of given her something that caused her to abort with out her knowledge. She might of thought that she had an actual miscarriage which she actually might of given the situation and the stress she was under.

              Her landlady backed her up which kind of confirms this theory for me. there is also the stories and suspicion regarding Crippen's treatment of his first wife, Charlotte.

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              • #22
                Ethel

                In the late sixties my mother was a district nurse and one of her calls was a very elderly ex policeman.

                One day he opened a drawer and gave her a scarf. He said that he was one of the officers who used to escort Ethel Le Neve to and from court for her trial and when she was acquitted she gave him her scarf as a thank you for being kind.

                Oh mother whatever happened to that scarf?
                www.darkdeedswales.com

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by George Hutchinson View Post
                  What a bizarre thing to say, and not a little offensive.

                  PHILIP
                  I somehow missed this.

                  What George said...

                  There's no shortage of names to prove my point.
                  From Nell Gwyn ("Pray good people be civil, I am
                  the Protestant whore.") to Edmund Kean, to John
                  Wilkes Booth and Oscar Wilde, to Liz Taylor, Joan
                  Crawford, Nancy Reagan and Marilyn Monroe, to Phil
                  Specter, Robert Blake and OJ Simpson, there's
                  scores of them.

                  Sorry you're offended, but facts are facts.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Hi Bob,

                    I bet Ethel did appreciate kind people after what she had been through.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Livia Trivia View Post
                      The people the Crippens socialized with were retired show people. Their standards of morality were far more lax than most everyone else's, then and now.

                      Originally posted by George Hutchinson View Post
                      What a bizarre thing to say, and not a little offensive.

                      PHILIP
                      Originally posted by Livia Trivia View Post
                      I somehow missed this.

                      What George said...

                      There's no shortage of names to prove my point.
                      From Nell Gwyn ("Pray good people be civil, I am
                      the Protestant whore.") to Edmund Kean, to John
                      Wilkes Booth and Oscar Wilde, to Liz Taylor, Joan
                      Crawford, Nancy Reagan and Marilyn Monroe, to Phil
                      Specter, Robert Blake and OJ Simpson, there's
                      scores of them.

                      Sorry you're offended, but facts are facts.
                      Sorry, Livia, but how does this odd assorted list of names in any way bear witness to the charge that you made that the show business people that the Crippens associated with were inordinately immoral? As a member of a family that has show business connections I also find your statement offensive and ill thought out.

                      Chris
                      Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
                      https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

                      Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
                      Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Well I was gonna let it go but if Livia was speaking in retrospect then she has a point on how show biz folks were viewed in 1910.

                        Dew, at first certainly didn't believe the Strong Woman, regarding Cora disappearance.

                        I don't know what the deal was over there in the UK regarding show folks but over here in the USA if you were an Actor and your last name wasn't Barrymore, Adams or Booth or another Broadway name you were treated like dirt for the most part. You couldn't stay in certain hotels and got substandard service at restaurants. mostly it depended on what state or even what town you were in. Mostly though actors were looked upon as cheats and liars and actresses were thought to be glorified prostitutes.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by George Lorton View Post
                          Well I was gonna let it go but if Livia was speaking in retrospect then she has a point on how show biz folks were viewed in 1910.

                          Dew, at first certainly didn't believe the Strong Woman, regarding Cora disappearance.

                          I don't know what the deal was over there in the UK regarding show folks but over here in the USA if you were an Actor and your last name wasn't Barrymore, Adams or Booth or another Broadway name you were treated like dirt for the most part. You couldn't stay in certain hotels and got substandard service at restaurants. mostly it depended on what state or even what town you were in. Mostly though actors were looked upon as cheats and liars and actresses were thought to be glorified prostitutes.
                          Hi George

                          You make a good point about period attitudes. But I would make the perhaps better point that this was the sort of bigotry that almost got Mrs. Maybrick hanged. She had loose morals in having an extramarital affair, so therefore she was capable of anything. It's also the sort of thinking that unfortunately riddles the case and is used as the basis for some suspect theories and thinking about the case. He did this, so therefore he is capable of this. Actually it is bogus thinking and not useful in criminology or Ripperology.

                          Best regards

                          Chris
                          Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
                          https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

                          Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
                          Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Hi Chris G,

                            That is what it was too, Bigotry. I think over here in the States it goes back to John Wilkes Booth, an actor shooting our President Lincoln.

                            the US government was just awful to the Actors in our American Cousin, most of whom were English. they, the government thought that all Actors were involved too because John Wilkes Booth waited for a certain comic line to be uttered before he struck.

                            I'm still not familiar with the Maybrick Case after more then a year posting here too. However I feel for Ms. Maybrick, having to deal with folks bigotry as I have had to deal with it myself.

                            Zelda Sayer Fitzgerald often comes to mind when I think along these lines as she too had to deal with folks gossiping about her in her own home town because she was a manic depressive, who had suffered a complete breakdown.

                            Another person is Juanita Hanson, an early serial Queen of the teens who got addicted to cocaine and wrote a book about her experiences of how she was treated by people after she had gotten off drugs. She called her book The Conspiracy Of Silence.
                            Last edited by George Lorton; December 25, 2011, 11:26 AM. Reason: Got the book title wrong

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                            • #29
                              Did Ethel live in East Dulwich at any time does anybody know, just a hunch of someone I met in my youth ?....Pat

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