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Ethel Le Naive.....oops sorry Neve

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  • Ethel Le Naive.....oops sorry Neve

    Hi new boy here.....researching Ethel Clara above, as she lived in my home town (1883-90) and I've been in her house and old room. I think, far from being the shrinking violet portrayed throughout history, there's more of Ethel to be uncovered......especially since she spent most of December 1909 and January 1910 in The Library of The Royal College of Surgeons studying toxicology.....


    We must not forget what Ethel said when told by the Authorities that her lover Dr. Crippen had just been executed.......Just one word..........'Oh'.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Nick Woods View Post
    Hi new boy here.....researching Ethel Clara above, as she lived in my home town (1883-90) and I've been in her house and old room. I think, far from being the shrinking violet portrayed throughout history, there's more of Ethel to be uncovered......especially since she spent most of December 1909 and January 1910 in The Library of The Royal College of Surgeons studying toxicology.....


    We must not forget what Ethel said when told by the Authorities that her lover Dr. Crippen had just been executed.......Just one word..........'Oh'.
    Welcome, Nick. I'll look forward to your posts as I'm also interested in the Crippen case and personalities involved.

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    • #3
      Ethel

      I want to try and keep this thread solely on Ethel, as it appears to me that she has more mystery about her than has been previously explored.


      1. Since 1910 she gave only 4 notable interviews. Each one contradicted the last.
      2. Ethel left England less than 3 hours after her lovers execution. This appears to have been sponsored travel to New York, then onto Canada. Both cities Dr. Crippen knew well.
      3. What happened to Dr. Crippens bull terrier dog and two cats still at Hilldrop Crescent in Spring 1910?
      4. Why would a poisoner de-bone and dispose of a body, but bury the viscera containing the poison?
      5. I think the three women in Dr. Crippen's life were all victims of his botched abortions and 'medical experimentation'.
      a. Heavily pregnant Charlotte Jane Bell his first wife, died Jan. 24 1892 aged 33 of a stroke. She had previously told her brother that she was scared of her husband
      b. Possibly pregnant Cora circa 1893 (Dr. Spilsbury's dubious scar)
      c. Ethel Clara Le Neve in early 1910. She too had told previously told her father she was scared of Dr. Crippen, so much so her father feared for her life..........................

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      • #4
        Hi Nick,

        Personally, I've always suspected that Dr Crippen murdered his first wife.

        I also believe that Ethel Le Neve knew much more about Cora Crippen's demise, than has been widely conjectured.

        Ethel Le Neve was living at Burford Road, Catford, S. E. London, at the time of her death. Burford Road is a stones throw from where I live.

        Best wishes,

        Sean.

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        • #5
          Ethel

          Another query I have with the Dr. Crippen saga is dates. First wife Charlotte Jane Bell b. 1859. Staunch Catholic....she used to rush off to confession every time she had sex. They had a son Otto Hawley b. 1890. Crippen's second wife Cora Turner had already been married and was born 1873/5.....she was 17 when Crippen met her apparently around 1890 in New York. There is an assumption that Crippen was still married....he certainly married Cora (Sep. 1892) some 7 months after Charlotte had 'died'. Otto is noted as 2 and 4 when he was sent to live with Crippen's parents in California.

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          • #6
            Cora was born in 1873. One of the members here. Livia, found Cora's birth certificate in the archives although she didn't publish the exact date of birth online.

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            • #7
              So what about Ethel?

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              • #8
                Cora's birth in 1873 would accord with Crippen meeting her in 1890 aged 17 as the historical reports say. That would mean he was still married. The records say he was infatuated by Cora's liberlism, promiscuity and decadence, so maybe he hastened Charlotte's demise?

                by 1909 Ethel was pregnant, but had a miscarriage/abortion in Jan/Feb 1910. I remember reading that the 'stress of the situation caused it', but I think Crippen medically forwarded it, because the timing was awkward for him.

                He had no interest in children and abandoned his son Otto (b. 1889) with his parents aged 4. I can't find information to suggest the father ever saw the son again.

                I think to fund Cora's stage aspirations and financial demands, Crippen botched abortions, with Ethel helping and the female under his cellar was one of those (post 1908). Ethel knew there was an end goal and that one day they would be together.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Rob Clack View Post
                  So what about Ethel?
                  Hi Rob


                  I think Ethel knew that Crippen murdered Cora (the body in his cellar) and helped him cover it up. How about you?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                    Hi Rob


                    I think Ethel knew that Crippen murdered Cora (the body in his cellar) and helped him cover it up. How about you?
                    I am saving it for my book. Seriously.

                    Rob

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                    • #11
                      Ethel

                      2007 mitochondrial dna testing suggested that the body in the cellar was neither Cora nor female. Mind you that was funded by The Crippen family and Michigan State University, so there may be a hidden agenda there, as they're keen to see Dr. Crippen's remains repatriated. I also think it's harsh that the UK won't release other testable samples, without a large wodge of cash.


                      It's fair to say the 1910 slides were probably contaminated anyway as forensics was in its infancy then. Many's the report of the cellar diggers and detectives stroking their extravagantly large moustaches during the dig.


                      Bernard Spilsbury was a large, dominating and court blustering man and I think was gunning for a conviction. It therefore begs the question if the body in the cellar was definitely not Cora nor female but male, then Crippen should be exonerated, as this was the crime he was charged with.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Rob Clack View Post
                        I am saving it for my book. Seriously.

                        Rob
                        Good luck with the book then Rob.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
                          Good luck with the book then Rob.
                          Thanks Deb x

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