Albert Backert - The Steffens/Stiffens family in and after 1901

[Debra Arif]

I still think that Albert Bachert was registered as Charles Frederick Bachert when he was born in 1862 and had his name changed at baptism as I mentioned in page 1 or 2.

I was just listening to Mick Priestley's Rippercat Podcast from the WS meeting and I enjoyed it immensely, despite Mick saying Bachert is only documented from 1887 onwards when here on forums we've been discussing his campaigning with Cowan and the Conservatives in 1885, his runs ins with Lewis Lyons and all his other escapades for many years.
Bachert disappears after the 1901 census as Chris posted, not 1893. In 1901 he was living with his married sister, Flora.

[Debra Arif]

He couldn't have ended up in Romford, could he?

[ATTACH]17393[/ATTACH]

That must be someone related!

[Gary Barnett]

I still think that Albert Bachert was registered as Charles Frederick Bachert when he was born in 1862 and had his name changed at baptism as I mentioned in page 1 or 2.

I was just listening to Mick Priestley's Rippercat Podcast from the WS meeting and I enjoyed it immensely, despite Mick saying Bachert is only documented from 1887 onwards when here on forums we've been discussing his campaigning with Cowan and the Conservatives in 1885, his runs ins with Lewis Lyons and all his other escapades for many years.
Bachert disappears after the 1901 census as Chris posted, not 1893. In 1901 he was living with his married sister, Flora.

So the child below has three family Christian names and the surname.

[Gary Barnett]

That must be someone related!

Our posts crossed, Debs.

It looks promising, doesn't it? Bachert's not someone I know very much about.

[Gary Barnett]

So the child below has three family Christian names and the surname.

There's also an Albert T Backert, born 1903, on the 1939 register in Walthamstow.

Perhaps he inherited his dad's misspelling mania.

[Debra Arif]

I think there were several children: Albert T, Violet, Rose and other born to an August Bachert b 1871 in Germany and his British wife Sarah Taylor, August was b 1871 in Germany so not related. The Germans and Dutch both seem to have liked to pack in and scramble names about.

[Howard Brown]

I was just listening to Mick Priestley's Rippercat Podcast from the WS meeting and I enjoyed it immensely, despite Mick saying Bachert is only documented from 1887 onwards when here on (The) Forums we've been discussing his campaigning with Cowan and the Conservatives in 1885, his runs ins with Lewis Lyons and all his other escapades for many years.
Bachert disappears after the 1901 census as Chris posted, not 1893. In 1901 he was living with his married sister, Flora.
-Debs Arif-

Good points, Debs.
I get the feeling more will be uncovered by you and the crew.

[Gary Barnett]

I think there were several children: Albert T, Violet, Rose and other born to an August Bachert b 1871 in Germany and his British wife Sarah Taylor, August was b 1871 in Germany so not related. The Germans and Dutch both seem to have liked to pack in and scramble names about.

Probably not worth getting the cert, then, for the 1903 Romford birth.

[Robert Linford]

So for male Bacherts with mother Fisher we have
John Charles Adolph Q2 1858 Whitechapel (mother FisCher)
William Albert Q4 1860 Whitechapel
Charles Frederick Q3 1862 SGITE
Carl Q3 MEOT 1863 (mother FiXher)


And for females
Emily Q4 1864 MEOT
Louisa Q3 1867 Whitechapel
Flora Emma Q4 1869 Whitechapel

[Gary Barnett]

Unless I'm missing something, the 1901 Albert is Becker aged 26 and born in Mile End.

Is this the person we think was Bachert?

[Gary Barnett]

Unless I'm missing something, the 1901 Albert is Becker aged 26 and born in Mile End.

Is this the person we think was Bachert?

Then we have his sister, Flora Steffen, in 1911 supposedly born in the City?

Apart from his age, doesn't that fit better with the family of John Bachert in Dukes Place in 1871, daughter Flora, 1, and Albert, 8?

[Debra Arif]

Then we have his sister, Flora Steffen, in 1911 supposedly born in the City?

Apart from his age, doesn't that fit better with the family of John Bachert in Dukes Place in 1871, daughter Flora, 1, and Albert, 8?

Gary, just to clarify:

I'm not suggesting that it's the wrong Bachert family, just the wrong son of this Bachert family, children of John Bachert and Georgine Fisher.
Wilhelm Albert Bachert b 1860 definitely died in 1861 as the birth, baptism, death and burial records I posted show. He made it on to the 1861 census but it isn't the same 'Albert' listed in 1871. He was another son of the couple, but which one? I'm suggesting he was registered originally as Charles Frederick Bachert in Sept qtr 1862. The mothers maiden name in that birth is Fisher but there's absolutely no trace of Charles Frederick Bachert anywhere after his birth. I'm trying to discover he was the child baptised in Sept 1862 as 'Albert William' by John and Georgine in the same German Lutheran chapel mentioned earlier in the thread in Whitechapel. That child does not appear to have a GRO registration entry under that name. Plus, the timeline wouldn't fit for any other son to have been born between 1861 and 1863, unless there were twins and one died or there was another family with the Bachert/Fisher parent combination in the same area at the same time.

I've set out my research in the next post.

[Debra Arif]

Wilhelm Albert b 1860
1 GRO Birth Registration
BACHERT, WILLIAM ALBERT FISHER Order
GRO Reference: 1860 D Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 393

2 Baptism
Name: Wilhelm Albert Bachert
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 25 Dec 1860
Baptism Place: White Chapel, Middlesex, England
Father: Johann Gustav Jacob Bachert
Mother: Georgine Elise Emilie Dorette Fischer

3 GRO Death Registration
BOCKERT, WILHELM ALBERT 11[Mos.] Order
GRO Reference: 1861 S Quarter in SAINT GEORGE IN THE EAST Volume 01C Page 283

4 Burial
William Albert Bockert, New Rd St George East, 9th Sept 1861, age 11 mos., 7158, 1509
Piece 0045: Hackney, Victoria Park Cemetery: Burials. Vol 4

Albert William Bachert b 1862
1 Baptism
Name: Albert Wilhelm Bachart
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 7 Sep 1862
Baptism Place: White Chapel, Middlesex, England
Father: Johann Bachart
Mother: Georgine Fischer

No GRO Birth Registration for this child
No GRO Death Registration for this child

Charles Frederick Bachert
1 GRO Birth Registration
BACHERT, CHARLES FREDERICK FISHER
GRO Reference: 1862 S Quarter in SAINT GEORGE IN THE EAST Volume 01C Page 379

No Baptism for this child
No GRO Death Registration for this child

I suggested that this GRO birth registration for Charles Frederick Bachert may be the birth registration for the child later baptised as Albert William Bachert. The mother's maiden name on the GRO ref for Charles's birth is Fisher, as was Georgine Bachert's maiden name. The other children in the family were all baptised within a couple of months of their births so that would suggest that either Albert baptised Sept 1862 and Charles b Jul/Aug or Sept 1862 were twins or the same child? The lack of a GRO birth entry for Albert William or a baptism for Charles goes against them being twins.

Charles Lewis Bachert
1 GRO birth registration
BACHERT, CARL FIXHER
GRO Reference: 1863 S Quarter in MILE END OLD TOWN Volume 01C Page 515

The only records that fits Carl's birth seem to be this child who died and was buried 10 mos later:

2 GRO death registration
BACHERT, CHARLES LEWIS 10 [10 Mos. According to burial record]
GRO Reference: 1864 J Quarter in MILE END OLD TOWN Volume 01C Page 397

3 Burial
Charles Lewis Bachert
Mulberry Street Whitechapel,
Burial Date: 21 Jun 1864 age 10 months
Burial Place: Hackney, Middlesex, England
Piece Title: Piece 0046: Hackney, Victoria Park Cemetery: Burials. Vol 5

Baptism?
Name: Ludwig Heinrich Georg Bachert
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 29 Nov 1863
Baptism Place: White Chapel, Middlesex, England
Father: Johann Gustav Bachert
Mother: Georgine Fischer

Friederierke Auguste Metta BACKERT
1 GRO Birth Registration

BACKERT, FRIEDERIERKE AUGUSTE METTA FICHER
GRO Reference: 1855 S Quarter in SAINT GEORGE (IN THE EAST) Volume 01C Page 38

2 Baptism
Name: Friederike Auguste Meta Bachert
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 30 Sep 1855
Baptism Place: Whitechapel, Middlesex, England
Father: Johann Bachert
Mother: Georgine Fischer

John Charles Adolph Bachert
1 Birth JOHN CHARLES ADOLPH BACHERT, FISCHER
GRO Reference: 1858 J Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 375

2Baptism
Name Johann Carl Adolph Burchert
Gender Male
Christening Date 23 May 1858
Christening Place White Chapel, Middlesex, England
Father's Name Johann Gustav Jacob Buchert
Mother's Name Georgina Elise Emilie Jonette Fischer

Emily Bachert
1 GRO Birth
BACHERT, EMILY FISHER
GRO Reference: 1864 D Quarter in MILE END OLD TOWN Volume 01C Page 525

Louisa Bachert
1 GRO Birth registration
BACHERT, LOUISA FISCHER
GRO Reference: 1867 S Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 379

2 GRO Death registration
BACHERT, LOUISA 6 Order
GRO Reference: 1867 D Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 291

3 Burial
Louisa Bacher, 2 Haydon Square, Whitechapel, 23rd Nov 1867, 6mos., 6567, 3239
Piece 47-1: Hackney, Victoria Park Cemetery: Burials. Vol 6

Flora Emma Bachert
1 GRO Birth registration
BACHERT, FLORA EMMA FISHER
GRO Reference: 1869 D Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 398

[Debra Arif]

The family baptism I've listed were at St George's German Lutheran Church Whitechapel

[Robert Linford]

Debs, that sounds very likely. Perhaps the grieving parents wished to commemorate their late son by using his name again at the baptism. It would be interesting to know if the baptism on September 7th was one year to the day after the death of the previous one. After all, the burial was September 9th.