Albert Bachert aka Alfred Charrington

[Jerry Dunlop]

BTW, Jerry In 1892 when Bachert was organising marches of what he termed the 'genuine' unemployed from Tower Hill in direct defiance of police orders and against the socialist organised unemployed marches, he wrote to one newspaper (I think it was The Times) claiming that Scotland Yard had employed private detectives to look in to his, and others, backgrounds. The article you first posted listing the various organisations Bachert was affiliated with, seems to be the fruit of that investigation?

Could very well be Debs. That would make sense to me.

I know the 3rd article I posted was from Oct,1890 when Backert was claiming he wasn't Charrington. The news reporter seemed to be onto him at that point yet seemed content with the answers Backert gave. I think the address at 13 Newnham Street that constantly cropped up in the papers at the time of the murders had to ring a bell with somebody by this point. That is, seeing it matched the address of "Colonel Charrington".

[Debra Arif]

BTW, Jerry In 1892 when Bachert was organising marches of what he termed the 'genuine' unemployed from Tower Hill in direct defiance of police orders and against the socialist organised unemployed marches, he wrote to one newspaper (I think it was The Times) claiming that Scotland Yard had employed private detectives to look in to his, and others, backgrounds. The article you first posted listing the various organisations Bachert was affiliated with, seems to be the fruit of that investigation?

[Debra Arif]

That's something he may had in common with FNC then - he was a lifelong bachelor.

Maybe, but I don't think anyone has found him past 1911 to confirm.

[Gary Barnett]

Bachert had much more in common with other members of the brewing family. Bachert canvassed for the conservatives at Trafalgar Square (Col Cowan) in 1884 and 1886. Spender Charrington snr was the conservative MP for Mile End from 1885 onwards for about 20 years.
Spencer Charrington the younger, cousin of Frederick and nephew of the MP donated funds to the WVC murder committe in 88. Spencer also donated free beer for an event at the People's Palace. Bachert was more likely besties with Spencer IMO

I have never found a marriage for him and he was still single in 1911 when he'd lobbed over ten years off his age and was living with his sister Flora Steffens or Stiffens after her husband deserted her (originally found by Chris Scott).

That's something he may had in common with FNC then - he was a lifelong bachelor.

[Debra Arif]

Presumably not besties, then.

I don't know very much about Bachert. Was he married?

Bachert had much more in common with other members of the brewing family. Bachert canvassed for the conservatives at Trafalgar Square (Col Cowan) in 1884 and 1886. Spender Charrington snr was the conservative MP for Mile End from 1885 onwards for about 20 years.
Spencer Charrington the younger, cousin of Frederick and nephew of the MP donated funds to the WVC murder committe in 88. Spencer also donated free beer for an event at the People's Palace. Bachert was more likely besties with Spencer IMO

I have never found a marriage for him and he was still single in 1911 when he'd lobbed over ten years off his age and was living with his sister Flora Steffens or Stiffens after her husband deserted her (originally found by Chris Scott).

[Gary Barnett]

Yes, that's the one. The meeting was at the assembly hall but the debate was about the opening of the peoples' palace on Sundays to sell intoxicating liquor.
Bachert was proposing an amendment but wasn't heard because of what he said about F N Charrington.

Presumably not besties, then.

I don't know very much about Bachert. Was he married?

[Debra Arif]

Tom says it was at the Great Assembly Hall. Bachert apparently upset FC by saying, ' Mr Charrington, having made a rich harvest out of liquor, [has] now turned against it'

Yes, that's the one. The meeting was at the assembly hall but the debate was about the opening of the peoples' palace on Sundays to sell intoxicating liquor and whether it was against the wishes of the will of the man who bequeathed the place for teh public to enjoy.
Bachert was proposing an amendment to the non sale of alcohol but wasn't heard because of what he said about F N Charrington.

Charrington himself read the amendment [presented by Bachert] which suggested that the non sale of alcohol on Sundays at the People's Palace would be detrimental to the working man but it negatived by the majority.

[Gary Barnett]

I'm thinking it's the debate surrounding the opening of the People's Palace on Sundays and selling liquor?

Tom says it was at the Great Assembly Hall. Bachert apparently upset FC by saying, ' Mr Charrington, having made a rich harvest out of liquor, [has] now turned against it'

[Debra Arif]

Where was that talk, Tom?

I'm thinking it's the debate surrounding the opening of the People's Palace on Sundays and selling liquor?

[Debra Arif]

I think AB needed to try to earn a blue ribbon himself, according to this. This one has his name as Alfred Backert.

London Evening News and Post
June 30, 1891

Yes, Bachert was well known to be drunk, especially on Mondays and Tuesdays.

I can't see Albert being in the BR army. Early reports in 1882 suggest he was originally in the Salvation Army but then switched to the Skeleton Army by 1883, unless the 1882 assault report is confused about which side he was on. The Skeleton Army were supposedly supported by the breweries and opposed to the temperance advocated by the Salvation Army and by Frederick Charrington himself.

I can't see Bachert supporting Frederick Charrington in his efforts myself. Maybe Spencer Charrington.

[Debra Arif]

Very interesting stuff, Jerry. I start off my Bachert essay in Ripper Confidential with Bachert giving a talk in 1886 in front of Frederick Charrington.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Where was that talk, Tom?

[Gary Barnett]

And this is what Guy Thorne had to say about 'the sacrifice':

Mr. Charrington gave up, for the sake of conscience, the enormous sum of a million and a quarter. It is very difficult for ordinary people to realise what this sum means. In the first instance, it means about fifty thousand pounds a year—roughly a thousand pounds a week, or about a hundred and forty pounds a day. And yet the figures quite fail to convey the reality. For those who set store by honours and high places, a million and a quarter means a peerage, a singling out and setting above the vast majority of one's fellow-men. It ensures the adulation of almost every one. Plenty of people say, "I do not value the man for his possessions, but for himself," and such a remark may be made perfectly sincerely. But in point of actual fact, there are very few people who can listen to the obiter dicta of a millionaire without unconscious deference, and, for my part, without the least wish to be cynical, I have always thought what truth there is in a certain celebrated passage from "Vanity Fair" à-propos of the rich Miss Crawley.

"What a dignity," says Thackeray, "it gives an old lady, that balance at the bankers'! How tenderly we look at her faults if she is a relative (may every reader have a score of such), what a kind, good-natured old creature we find her! How the junior partner of Hobbs and Dobbs leads her smiling to the carriage with the lozenge upon it, and the fat, wheezy coachman. How, when she comes to pay us a visit, we generally find an opportunity of letting our friends know her station[29] in the world! We say (and with perfect truth) 'I wish I had Miss MacWhirter's signature to a cheque for five thousand pounds'.... Is it so, or is it not so?"
We must remember also that, while the millionaire of sense does not pay much attention to vulgar flattery, it is very pleasant to have people of charm, intellect, and position around one, and to be great among them. A million and a quarter, if a man has artistic tastes, enables him to buy the finest pictures, the most perfect pieces of statuary, the rarest and most beautiful of books evolved by the genius of mankind. If Mr. Pierpont Morgan, for example, had not a passion for beautiful things, he would certainly not own the greatest art collections that exist. But above all, a million and a quarter means Power—the most eagerly sought for, the most satisfying possession that this world has to offer.

All these things, and the list might be prolonged indefinitely, Frederick Charrington threw away.

[Gary Barnett]

Here's an earlier thread about FC. In post 13 Rob Clack provided a link to an online version of the Guy Thorne biography.

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=20609&highlight=Osea&page=4

[Gary Barnett]

When he died in 1936, Fred Charrington left £37k, a sizeable sum at the time but a mere pittance in comparison to the very specific £1.25m it is often claimed he had sacrificed when he turned his back on the family brewing business.

In A Brewer's Progress, L. A. G. Strong tells us that 'His younger brother agreed to buy him out of the business over a period of years...' Fred had two younger brothers, John Douglas (1852 - 1945) and Arthur Leslie (1869 - 1889). Arthur Leslie died in 1889, leaving £78k. John Douglas died in 1945, leaving £806k and his son, Douglas Frederick, died in 1946, leaving £609k. I suspect JD was the younger brother to whom Fred passed his interest in the family brewery.

However, L. A. G. Strong tells us that Fred 'drew' a million pounds from the brewery and insists there was no rift between him and his father, Frederick (1816 - 1873). In fact he says that on his death bed Fred Sr ushered the rest of the family out of the room so he could have a final interview with Fred Jr, saying ''He is the only one who knows about these things' and, asking the rebel* to pray with him, gave him his blessing.' The Leominster News must have had a reporter hidden behind the curtains, though:





*The chapter on Fred in A Brewer's Progress is titled The Rebel. The book was privately printed in 1957 for Charringtons and contains a family tree which perhaps tellingly omits Fred although it includes other members of the family who were not directly involved in the brewing business.

[Tom_Wescott]

Very interesting stuff, Jerry. I start off my Bachert essay in Ripper Confidential with Bachert giving a talk in 1886 in front of Frederick Charrington.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott