Albert Bachert aka Alfred Charrington

[Jerry Dunlop]

I think AB needed to try to earn a blue ribbon himself, according to this. This one has his name as Alfred Backert.

London Evening News and Post
June 30, 1891

[Robert Linford]

Of course, some people cashed in.

[Jerry Dunlop]

Maybe Violenia was a member of the Blue Ribbon Army?

Daily News
United Kingdom
12 September 1888

"The police during the afternoon and evening made (illegible) inquiries into the statements made by the man who professed to identify Piser. The manner of this man, who is apparently of Spanish blood and displays a blue ribbon on his coat, did not inspire much confidence in his veracity, and he was severely cross-examined by a sort of informal tribunal consisting of experienced detective officers."

[Jerry Dunlop]

London Magnet
March 26, 1883


Looks like the Blue Ribbon Army was a form of Alcoholics Anonymous. In the case below the judge prolonged sentence if the men would join the Blue Ribbon Army and get the blue ribbon to show they had been sober for a period of time.

[Jerry Dunlop]

Thank you Debs and Robert,

I knew it was there somewhere.

[Robert Linford]

Jerry - East London Observer, Oct 21st 1882 - a Mr Charrington says he's a member of the BRA - probab;y Frederick as there's a lot about him on the same page.


Maybe How can post it all.

[Debra Arif]

I wanted to mention the Blue Ribbon Army briefly again. I am still looking for the reference in the papers to Frederick Charrington being a member of the Blue Ribbon Army but no luck yet. I know it's there somewhere.

Anyway, the Blue Ribbon Army was founded in 1878 and seems to be similar to the Salvation Army. Backert stated he had formed a group some four years prior to 1883 and the Skeleton Army. Wondering if he may have also been involved in this Blue Ribbon Army?

(page 110)
https://books.google.com/books?id=q6...201883&f=false

Jerry, in ' The True Believer,' January 1893, Vol. VI, Issue 1, there is a mention of Frederick Charrington wearing a blue ribbon and being asked what it cost him, he replied 'twenty thousand pounds a year'

[Debra Arif]

Thanks Debs,

Very interesting!

Obviously the same man. Was Backert using two names to the press, or did the press know him by two names? Does that make sense?

That's also what I wondered, Jerry.

Interestingly, in 1884 (maybe 5, I forget now), Bachert was campaigning for the conservative candidate Colonel Cowan in Trafalgar Square when he ran in to some trouble on that occasion too. In 1885, Spencer Charrington Snr. was elected Conservative candidate for Mile End and was MP for the ward for some 20 years or more. Then there's also the funding of the WVC by one of the Charringtons.

[Jerry Dunlop]

Here's a poem about the Blue Ribbon by the Great McGonagall. If you scroll down beyond the 'poem', there's a bit of background about the movement.

http://www.mcgonagall-online.org.uk/...ue-ribbon-army

Thanks Gary. So it was William Noble that established the Blue Ribbon Army in London. Looks like Noble ran the Blind Beggar pub (1872-1884) at 337 Whitechapel Road. If it's the same William Noble, that is.

[Gary Barnett]

I wanted to mention the Blue Ribbon Army briefly again. I am still looking for the reference in the papers to Frederick Charrington being a member of the Blue Ribbon Army but no luck yet. I know it's there somewhere.

Anyway, the Blue Ribbon Army was founded in 1878 and seems to be similar to the Salvation Army. Backert stated he had formed a group some four years prior to 1883 and the Skeleton Army. Wondering if he may have also been involved in this Blue Ribbon Army?

(page 110)
https://books.google.com/books?id=q6...201883&f=false

Here's a poem about the Blue Ribbon by the Great McGonagall. If you scroll down beyond the 'poem', there's a bit of background about the movement.

http://www.mcgonagall-online.org.uk/gems/a-tribute-to-mr-murphy-and-the-blue-ribbon-army

[Jerry Dunlop]

I wanted to mention the Blue Ribbon Army briefly again. I am still looking for the reference in the papers to Frederick Charrington being a member of the Blue Ribbon Army but no luck yet. I know it's there somewhere.

Anyway, the Blue Ribbon Army was founded in 1878 and seems to be similar to the Salvation Army. Backert stated he had formed a group some four years prior to 1883 and the Skeleton Army. Wondering if he may have also been involved in this Blue Ribbon Army?

(page 110)

https://books.google.com/books?id=q644AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=skeleton+army+and+united+states+1883&source=bl&ots=sOCH-VC6bs&sig=7VwFJVul6cIjlSmgnibqyWB1BkA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiWpqOO5bTYAhUH7WMKHTtzCpkQ6AEIPjAG#v=onepage&q=skeleton%20army%20and%20united%20states%201883&f=false

[Sam Flynn]

Does anyone else find this image quite disturbing? Right out of a nightmare....

It's not out of an anatomy book, that's for sure. Whoever drew that skeleton evidently didn't know of the existence of the pelvis; instead we get a "sausage-string" of bones arranged in a rough oval. The femurs hang off the bottom of this structure like stalactites, instead of articulating with, and emerging from, the pelvic bones themselves. In like manner, the arms seem to emerge directly from what appear to be the collar-bones; another error. To cap it all, the neck is too long and the skull is rather small compared to the rest of the body.

[Gary Barnett]

Does anyone else find this image quite disturbing? Right out of a nightmare....

Agreed - spooky stuff. I incline to the view that the drawing was probably done hastily by someone with skill.

[Jerry Dunlop]

Perhaps he was trying to pass himself off as Charrington but the Lloyd's reporter already knew him as Bachert (or the other way round).

Yes Gary. I was thinking something along those lines.

[Gary Barnett]

Thanks Debs,

Very interesting!

Obviously the same man. Was Backert using two names to the press, or did the press know him by two names? Does that make sense?

Perhaps he was trying to pass himself off as Charrington but the Lloyd's reporter already knew him as Bachert (or the other way round).