Albert Bachert aka Alfred Charrington

[Sam Flynn]

I disagree but don't fancy continuous back and forth posts on the subject of perspective!

It might at least put a different slant on things, Debs

[Robert Linford]

It could have been worse - someone could have stuffed their harmonium with pigeons culled from Trafalgar Square.

[Debra Arif]

It's very odd that some newspapers reported the 1886 Trafalgar Square incident naming him as Albert Bachert and others calling him Albert Charrington. The wording apart from the name is almost identical.

As we know he later gave evidence in court about the incident as Albert Bachert.

Here are transcripts from two newspapers of the 1886 incident in Trafalgar Square using the two different surnames :

The meeting held by the original promoters was led by Mr. Kenny, with whom appeared to be associated the East-End Fair Trade Leaguers, Messrs. Lemon, Peters, and Kelly, with Mr. Cook, late Consrvative candidate for Battersea, and Mr. Albert Charrington.The platform stands were made on work benches at the north end of the square..
The Illustrated London News (London, England), Saturday, February 13, 1886,


The crowd surged towards the south, and gave a welcome to Mr. Kenny, with whom appeared to be associated the East-end Fair Trade Leaguers, Messrs. Lemon, Peters and Kelly, with Mr. Cooke, late Conservative candidate for Battersea, and Mr, Albert Bachert. The platform stands were made on work benches at the north end of the square..
Lloyd's Illustrated Newspaper (London, England), Sunday, February 14, 1886

[SirRobertAnderson]

Thanks, How. I can't believe I've been on this planet for 60+ years and have only just heard about the SA.

Gary, I had the exact same thought. It's a fascinating thread. That Ripper letter with the coffin has always raised the hair on the back of my neck.

[SirRobertAnderson]

Just in case this helps....

Does anyone else find this image quite disturbing? Right out of a nightmare....

[Howard Brown]

Bob

That's why I agree with Debra that the missive seems to have been made by someone with a modicum of artistic skill and/or not just a random card or letter written by a kook.

It is a little creepy....to answer your question.

[Jerry Dunlop]

Here are transcripts from two newspapers of the 1886 incident in Trafalgar Square using the two different surnames :

The meeting held by the original promoters was led by Mr. Kenny, with whom appeared to be associated the East-End Fair Trade Leaguers, Messrs. Lemon, Peters, and Kelly, with Mr. Cook, late Consrvative candidate for Battersea, and Mr. Albert Charrington.The platform stands were made on work benches at the north end of the square..
The Illustrated London News (London, England), Saturday, February 13, 1886,


The crowd surged towards the south, and gave a welcome to Mr. Kenny, with whom appeared to be associated the East-end Fair Trade Leaguers, Messrs. Lemon, Peters and Kelly, with Mr. Cooke, late Conservative candidate for Battersea, and Mr, Albert Bachert. The platform stands were made on work benches at the north end of the square..
Lloyd's Illustrated Newspaper (London, England), Sunday, February 14, 1886

Thanks Debs,

Very interesting!

Obviously the same man. Was Backert using two names to the press, or did the press know him by two names? Does that make sense?

[Gary Barnett]

Thanks Debs,

Very interesting!

Obviously the same man. Was Backert using two names to the press, or did the press know him by two names? Does that make sense?

Perhaps he was trying to pass himself off as Charrington but the Lloyd's reporter already knew him as Bachert (or the other way round).

[Jerry Dunlop]

Perhaps he was trying to pass himself off as Charrington but the Lloyd's reporter already knew him as Bachert (or the other way round).

Yes Gary. I was thinking something along those lines.

[Gary Barnett]

Does anyone else find this image quite disturbing? Right out of a nightmare....

Agreed - spooky stuff. I incline to the view that the drawing was probably done hastily by someone with skill.

[Sam Flynn]

Does anyone else find this image quite disturbing? Right out of a nightmare....

It's not out of an anatomy book, that's for sure. Whoever drew that skeleton evidently didn't know of the existence of the pelvis; instead we get a "sausage-string" of bones arranged in a rough oval. The femurs hang off the bottom of this structure like stalactites, instead of articulating with, and emerging from, the pelvic bones themselves. In like manner, the arms seem to emerge directly from what appear to be the collar-bones; another error. To cap it all, the neck is too long and the skull is rather small compared to the rest of the body.

[Jerry Dunlop]

I wanted to mention the Blue Ribbon Army briefly again. I am still looking for the reference in the papers to Frederick Charrington being a member of the Blue Ribbon Army but no luck yet. I know it's there somewhere.

Anyway, the Blue Ribbon Army was founded in 1878 and seems to be similar to the Salvation Army. Backert stated he had formed a group some four years prior to 1883 and the Skeleton Army. Wondering if he may have also been involved in this Blue Ribbon Army?

(page 110)

https://books.google.com/books?id=q644AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=skeleton+army+and+united+states+1883&source=bl&ots=sOCH-VC6bs&sig=7VwFJVul6cIjlSmgnibqyWB1BkA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiWpqOO5bTYAhUH7WMKHTtzCpkQ6AEIPjAG#v=onepage&q=skeleton%20army%20and%20united%20states%201883&f=false

[Gary Barnett]

I wanted to mention the Blue Ribbon Army briefly again. I am still looking for the reference in the papers to Frederick Charrington being a member of the Blue Ribbon Army but no luck yet. I know it's there somewhere.

Anyway, the Blue Ribbon Army was founded in 1878 and seems to be similar to the Salvation Army. Backert stated he had formed a group some four years prior to 1883 and the Skeleton Army. Wondering if he may have also been involved in this Blue Ribbon Army?

(page 110)
https://books.google.com/books?id=q6...201883&f=false

Here's a poem about the Blue Ribbon by the Great McGonagall. If you scroll down beyond the 'poem', there's a bit of background about the movement.

http://www.mcgonagall-online.org.uk/gems/a-tribute-to-mr-murphy-and-the-blue-ribbon-army

[Jerry Dunlop]

Here's a poem about the Blue Ribbon by the Great McGonagall. If you scroll down beyond the 'poem', there's a bit of background about the movement.

http://www.mcgonagall-online.org.uk/...ue-ribbon-army

Thanks Gary. So it was William Noble that established the Blue Ribbon Army in London. Looks like Noble ran the Blind Beggar pub (1872-1884) at 337 Whitechapel Road. If it's the same William Noble, that is.

[Debra Arif]

Thanks Debs,

Very interesting!

Obviously the same man. Was Backert using two names to the press, or did the press know him by two names? Does that make sense?

That's also what I wondered, Jerry.

Interestingly, in 1884 (maybe 5, I forget now), Bachert was campaigning for the conservative candidate Colonel Cowan in Trafalgar Square when he ran in to some trouble on that occasion too. In 1885, Spencer Charrington Snr. was elected Conservative candidate for Mile End and was MP for the ward for some 20 years or more. Then there's also the funding of the WVC by one of the Charringtons.