Albert Bachert aka Alfred Charrington

[Debra Arif]

Tom says it was at the Great Assembly Hall. Bachert apparently upset FC by saying, ' Mr Charrington, having made a rich harvest out of liquor, [has] now turned against it'

Yes, that's the one. The meeting was at the assembly hall but the debate was about the opening of the peoples' palace on Sundays to sell intoxicating liquor and whether it was against the wishes of the will of the man who bequeathed the place for teh public to enjoy.
Bachert was proposing an amendment to the non sale of alcohol but wasn't heard because of what he said about F N Charrington.

Charrington himself read the amendment [presented by Bachert] which suggested that the non sale of alcohol on Sundays at the People's Palace would be detrimental to the working man but it negatived by the majority.

[Gary Barnett]

Yes, that's the one. The meeting was at the assembly hall but the debate was about the opening of the peoples' palace on Sundays to sell intoxicating liquor.
Bachert was proposing an amendment but wasn't heard because of what he said about F N Charrington.

Presumably not besties, then.

I don't know very much about Bachert. Was he married?

[Debra Arif]

Presumably not besties, then.

I don't know very much about Bachert. Was he married?

Bachert had much more in common with other members of the brewing family. Bachert canvassed for the conservatives at Trafalgar Square (Col Cowan) in 1884 and 1886. Spender Charrington snr was the conservative MP for Mile End from 1885 onwards for about 20 years.
Spencer Charrington the younger, cousin of Frederick and nephew of the MP donated funds to the WVC murder committe in 88. Spencer also donated free beer for an event at the People's Palace. Bachert was more likely besties with Spencer IMO

I have never found a marriage for him and he was still single in 1911 when he'd lobbed over ten years off his age and was living with his sister Flora Steffens or Stiffens after her husband deserted her (originally found by Chris Scott).

[Gary Barnett]

Bachert had much more in common with other members of the brewing family. Bachert canvassed for the conservatives at Trafalgar Square (Col Cowan) in 1884 and 1886. Spender Charrington snr was the conservative MP for Mile End from 1885 onwards for about 20 years.
Spencer Charrington the younger, cousin of Frederick and nephew of the MP donated funds to the WVC murder committe in 88. Spencer also donated free beer for an event at the People's Palace. Bachert was more likely besties with Spencer IMO

I have never found a marriage for him and he was still single in 1911 when he'd lobbed over ten years off his age and was living with his sister Flora Steffens or Stiffens after her husband deserted her (originally found by Chris Scott).

That's something he may had in common with FNC then - he was a lifelong bachelor.

[Debra Arif]

That's something he may had in common with FNC then - he was a lifelong bachelor.

Maybe, but I don't think anyone has found him past 1911 to confirm.

[Debra Arif]

BTW, Jerry In 1892 when Bachert was organising marches of what he termed the 'genuine' unemployed from Tower Hill in direct defiance of police orders and against the socialist organised unemployed marches, he wrote to one newspaper (I think it was The Times) claiming that Scotland Yard had employed private detectives to look in to his, and others, backgrounds. The article you first posted listing the various organisations Bachert was affiliated with, seems to be the fruit of that investigation?

[Jerry Dunlop]

BTW, Jerry In 1892 when Bachert was organising marches of what he termed the 'genuine' unemployed from Tower Hill in direct defiance of police orders and against the socialist organised unemployed marches, he wrote to one newspaper (I think it was The Times) claiming that Scotland Yard had employed private detectives to look in to his, and others, backgrounds. The article you first posted listing the various organisations Bachert was affiliated with, seems to be the fruit of that investigation?

Could very well be Debs. That would make sense to me.

I know the 3rd article I posted was from Oct,1890 when Backert was claiming he wasn't Charrington. The news reporter seemed to be onto him at that point yet seemed content with the answers Backert gave. I think the address at 13 Newnham Street that constantly cropped up in the papers at the time of the murders had to ring a bell with somebody by this point. That is, seeing it matched the address of "Colonel Charrington".

[Jerry Dunlop]

I just read another thread from about a year ago and Howard was discussing Backert and ripper letters. Howard made an interesting observation in a case against Backert that was presided over by Mr. Mead. Backert received 3 months and no letters appeared for that time. Once Backert was released, Mr. Mead received a ripper letter. It also happened to contain a drawing of a coffin which I thought was interesting in light of this thread.

I also found a ripper letter that came from Weston-super-Mare on November 19th, 1888. That is supposedly the starting ground of the Skeleton Army. "Towards the end of 1881 in Weston-Super-Mare a rag tag bunch of libertines, drunkards, publicans and brothel-keepers began an organised opposition to the Salvation Army; the Skeleton Army." Interesting that Weston-super-Mare is very near Bristol.

[Jerry Dunlop]

Also around this same time in November, Backert was notified by the police of writing chalked up on blank wall on Newnham Street.

[Debra Arif]

Could very well be Debs. That would make sense to me.

I know the 3rd article I posted was from Oct,1890 when Backert was claiming he wasn't Charrington. The news reporter seemed to be onto him at that point yet seemed content with the answers Backert gave. I think the address at 13 Newnham Street that constantly cropped up in the papers at the time of the murders had to ring a bell with somebody by this point. That is, seeing it matched the address of "Colonel Charrington".

Yes, I just noticed the date of 1890.
Apparently some recognised him as both Backert and Charrington in 1886 when he was speaking with the fair dealers and conservatives against the socialists as both surnames were used in different newspapers.

[Jerry Dunlop]

Yes, I just noticed the date of 1890.
Apparently some recognised him as both Backert and Charrington in 1886 when he was speaking with the fair dealers and conservatives against the socialists as both surnames were used in different newspapers.

Yes and isn't it odd that no one mentions this at all over the years until 1892 when it is written as a matter of fact statement in a news report. Backert had his name all over the papers during the murders and not one report states that he was involved with the Skeleton Army or the Salvation Army. They always referred to him being involved with the Vigilance Committee, though.

[R. J. Palmer]

Gary,

I'm wondering if there was an Army prior to the Skeleton Army organized by Bachert. In one of the first clips I posted, Alfred Charrington says in his letter to the Daily News, " You state that the Skelton Army was first begun at Hackney. This is also not true, for I first founded an opposition Salvation Army at Whitechapel some four years ago which has grown to the great organization of the present day..." This would be in 1879 as the paper this came from was dated in 1883.

Jerry, here is an incident involving Bachert and what is presumably the Skeleton Army that pre-dates the others mentioned on this thread. ELO, 16 April 1881, p. 7.

Albert Bachert aka Charrington is fined 40 shillings or 14 days for what appears to have been a very violent assault. Best not walk home from a Salvation Army meeting without a cudgel.

[R. J. Palmer]

I'm not sure what to make of the term "publican's bail," but it's somewhat suggestive...

The devil in me can't help but remark that Bachert appears to have grown up just around the corner from Mitre Square, at No. 49 Duke Street.

[Joe Chetcuti]

Mick Priestly wrote a chapter on Bachert in the "Who Was Jack The Ripper?" book. A part of it reads:

"...the 1871 census shows the Bachert family living at 49 Duke Street; inside the city boundary, opposite St. Botolph's Church and only seven doors from where Joseph Lawende made his witness sighting on the night of Catherine Eddoes' murder."

[R. J. Palmer]

A Complication??

Yes, I just noticed the date of 1890.
Apparently some recognised him as both Backert and Charrington in 1886 when he was speaking with the fair dealers and conservatives against the socialists as both surnames were used in different newspapers.

In regards to the alias "Charrington", I've noticed an oddity in Bachert's 1881 census entry, at No. 13 Newnham Street, Whitechapel, that I haven't seen anyone else mention.

While all this trouble is going on with Bachert, there's a Russian living at the same address that is going by the name of "Frederick Charraton."

This can't be a coincidence, can it? If the "Skeleton" Bachert is using the name "Charrington," perhaps in sarcastic homage to Frederick Charrington, the ex-Brewery magnate who is trying to shut down the music halls, what are the odds that a man in the same house would be named Frederick Charraton? The name certainly doesn't sound very Russian (nor does "Harrison," the other roomer).

Is "Charraton" a rendering of "Charrington" from a census taker who can't understand the man's accent? Or is Bachert using the alias of a slightly older fellow lodger? Are these Russians "Harrison" and "Charrington/Charraton" also part of the 'Army,' or is it just a strange coincidence? Rhetorical questions, but it's kind of odd.