Pearly Poll in 1882

[Robert Linford]

Where's Debs's post of today? I can't see it.

[Debra Arif]

Where's Debs's post of today? I can't see it.

Can you see this one, Robert? I can see my other one on the thread.
...not that it was anything exciting..

[Robert Linford]

Hi Debs

Yes it's working again now.

[Jon Simons]

Hi How

Debs;
Do you or anyone else know where the idea that Pearly Poll was born in 1838 ( Page 105 of the A To Z, for a source ) came from ?
Thanks.

According to the England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 a Mary Anne Connolly died in Bethnal Green in 1898, and her birthdate is given as 1839.

[Howard Brown]

Jon:

Thanks for that,buddy.
If that's the only reference to a Mary Ann Connolly, Nina is going to look further.
I've put off looking into Poll, as her assumed age ( 49 in 1888 ) seems incorrect...but it could be right. It just doesn't sit right for some reason...
Again, thanks JG

[Tom_Wescott]

Nobody knows where the A-Z got age 50 for Pearly Poll. I don't believe they even know. Based on other sources she was between 35 and 40 or so in 1888.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Debra Arif]

Hi Debs



Noticed this post yesterday whilst looking for Pearly Poll.

I don`t know how you got on with the Margaret angle but Polly, or Poll in this case, was also a nick name for Mary Ann.
Just wondering whether Poll may have been from Lambeth and know as Pearly Poll, or she wore lots of pearl jewellery.

Hi Jon,
That's a much better explanation for the use of 'Pearly'-that she was involved in the coster's Pearly Queen scene. I wonder if word searching just 'Pearly' in the newspapers may bring up it's use in others' names. Might give a bit more of a clue if we can find someone else using it too?

[Debra Arif]

Curses to Floriline toothpaste!

[Debra Arif]

I still wonder where the Mogg comes from?

[Debra Arif]

Lots of Moggs but no Margarets!

It was new to me that Emily Holland had the nickname "German Moggy"
According to the Sheffield and Rotherham Independent of 1st Sept 1888, German Moggy was the last person to see Polly Nichols alive at 2.30am.

Lloyd's Weekly of August 12 1888 (same story printed in the Echo of 10th august 88) say Pearly Poll was also supposedly known in the district as "Mogg,"

And then there's Marshall's "Murder Mag", who was said to be a friend of JTR's first victim.

...just a bit of trivia.

[SirRobertAnderson]

Drat. Nowt in the Old Baliey archives for Pearly, Pearl, Pearly Queen or any kind of toothpaste.

Edit: Doh!! Loads of entries for Pearl but sadly nothing for Pearly. The Old Bailey is usually a good source for the use of (old) words and phrases.

I've have always thought it was a reference to a Pearly Queen....a somewhat off color remark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHRpRzXzTHg

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi all. This 'German Moggy' reference is brand new to me as well, though is that article mostly made up by the reporter? Has anyone found any other Mogs or Moggs?

I think the masculine woman referred to as 'Mog the Man' by Benjamin Leeson, living in Flower and Dean Street in 1898 is probably Pearly Poll.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Debra Arif]

Hi Tom,
The article seems fairly typical of other articles printed on the 1st Sept with different accounts being printed in the one column, some more accurate than others.

Something else may be interesting with this 1st Sept article too.
-"Leather Apron" is mentioned by Mogg.

I may be mistaken but checking the archives I've seen it posted that a first mention of leather Apron was in the 4th Sept 88 in the Star. I haven't got the Ripperologist article by Paul Begg and Chris George to hand to check the latest discoveries on this (given the large newspaper archives at out disposal now) but this Sheffield paper mentions "Leather Apron" much earlier-in fact, "Germany Moggy" mentions Leather Apron.

As German Moggy appears at exactly the same time as Emily Holland is said to have and spoke to Polly at 2.30am, I'm presuming it is Emily Holland and that she was the one who first mentioned Leather Apron to police?



Sheffield and Rotherham Independent 1st Sept 1888

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Debs, thanks for posting this. I was thinking of a different article, but I recall this one now from either Casebook or Begg's Ripperologist article. I saw on another thread you received more information about this 'German Moggy' from a 'genuis' who you feel is legit? Would love to see it. Just to keep track, we now have:

Mogg (Pearly Poll)
Mogg Cheeks (MacKenzie?)
Mogg the Man (possibly Pearly Poll)
German Moggy (Emily Holland)
Mod Sullivan (lived with Pearly Poll in Dorset Street, included for similarity)

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Debra Arif]

Hi Debs, thanks for posting this. I was thinking of a different article, but I recall this one now from either Casebook or Begg's Ripperologist article. I saw on another thread you received more information about this 'German Moggy' from a 'genuis' who you feel is legit? Would love to see it. Just to keep track, we now have:

Mogg (Pearly Poll)
Mogg Cheeks (MacKenzie?)
Mogg the Man (possibly Pearly Poll)
German Moggy (Emily Holland)
Mod Sullivan (lived with Pearly Poll in Dorset Street, included for similarity)

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Yes, I didn't have Paul and Chris's article to hand so wasn't sure if it was in there or not. It didn't come up on google either.

Anyhoo.
I had a PM from Mr Lucky giving me a possible (which I personally think is a very likely!) for German Moggy. I'm sure he won't mind me posting his ID. Thanks again Mr Lucky!
Remember when a woman named Mary Ann Nichols was arrested in Trafalgar Square?...look at the other names and see if anything strikes you:

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=8713&highlight=%22trafalgar+square%22

post #7 gives a list.


I forgot about Mod Sullivan. There was a Mog Sullivan in Whitechapel too.