Jonathan A's Atlanta's Black Jack The Ripper of 1911 Forum

[Celesta]

I picked it up at *Sam's Club for $12.98, but, as I said, this is a local author, and I don't know if Sam's in other regions would carry it.

*Not to be confused with our own Mighty Mr. Flynn.

[George Lorton]

I wonder I didn't find this topic earlier. I haven't heard about it in 20 some years. My Grandad who was born in 1900 knew about this case while it was happening as a boy growing up and talked to my Grandma about it. She told me about it while we were watching Michael Kane's JTR. She and my Grandpa both felt that the killer was a white man who got away with it.

I think it might of been a man of mixed race who could pass for black or white.

[Celesta]

George, Both witnesses describe him as a tall, well-built, black man. Of course, they were seeing him after dark. I suppose it's possible that some of the pre-1911 murders, done by gunshot, might have been a white man. I have nothing to back that up, but, who knows, maybe your grandparents instincts were right. Racial tension was pretty high during that era.

[George Lorton]

Yeah I was that too as I am sure my grandpa did. However he might not have read the witness statements. I was just saying what they thought not that they had any special info.

What ticks me off is that 20 women were killed. I don't believe that every murder was committed by a different killer. I think the cops and press seized on that because they were afraid that it did not look good that 20 some women were slain and they never caught the guy who did it.

The I think those African American Youths who were in that club and wrote that letter to the papers were right. A black detective would of found out more because the black folks of those neighborhoods would of talked more to fellow black man and more might of come forward. A lot of the black residents did not trust the white cops and with good reason. I think that impeded the investigation.

[Celesta]

I keep wondering why so few people in Atlanta have ever heard of this string of murders in their own city. I didn't hear of it until maybe 5 or 6 years ago. At that time, I tried to find out more but there was not much info other than the Constitution and Journal articles. I think you're right; the African Americans would probably have opened up more to a black detective. At least this little book fills in some gaps. The Chamber of Commerce started pushing the Mayor, et al to provide more protection and a deeper investigation.

[George Lorton]

I keep wondering why so few people here have ever heard of this string of murders in their own city. I didn't hear of it until maybe 5 or 6 years ago. At that time, I tried to find out more but there was not much info other than the Constitution and Journal articles. I think you're right; the African Americans would probably have opened up more to a black detective. At least this little book fills in some gaps. The Chamber of Commerce started pushing the Mayor, et al to provide more protection and a deeper investigation.

Excellent Points Celesta, I need to study up more on this though as what I know about it what I have been told and what I have read on this topic that How posted. so you probably know more then me.

I am glad the book has come out as it focuses some much needed attention on this forgotten case.

[Celesta]

Excellent Points Celesta, I need to study up more on this though as what I know about it what I have been told and what I have read on this topic that How posted. so you probably know more then me.

I am glad the book has come out as it focuses some much needed attention on this forgotten case.

No, I'm sure you know more than I do! In that post, I meant to say "Atlanta," not "here," as here on the Forums! That must have sounded pretty rude! I just edited the post to read "Atlanta!"

Anyway, it's not that great a book, but for Atlantans, who are unaware of the murders, it might be an eye-opener.

[Stephen Thomas]

I think there's a chance there may be some more articles there. Can't promise, of corpse, but there's a chance. I believe it's called the Macon Telegraph.

A lovely Freudian Slip there, Celesta dear.

Hope you and yours are well.

[Celesta]

A lovely Freudian Slip there, Celesta dear.

Hope you and yours are well.

Long time no see, Stephen. We're doing pretty well, thanks. Hope you all are, too.

[Howard Brown]

Cellie :

What did the author say about the bizarre theft of (some) victims' shoes ?

It might sound stupid, but since the majority of the murders occurred during warm and then the hot months of Summer , I wonder whether those victims who it is supposed had their shoes taken after their death, actually were wearing shoes at the time they were murdered.

[Celesta]

Cellie :

What did the author say about the bizarre theft of (some) victims' shoes ?

It might sound stupid, but since the majority of the murders occurred during warm and then the hot months of Summer , I wonder whether those victims who it is supposed had their shoes taken after their death, actually were wearing shoes at the time they were murdered.

No, it doesn't sound stupid, because it was the Spring and Summer. He mentioned the shoes only in passing, so far. I'm still reading though. That would have been Sadie Holley on July 10th. All Wells said is that the shoes were never found. Some of the women were coming from work though, so I'm sure they would've been wearing shoes. He launches into Todd Henderson. I might as well say that he's working up to Mary Phagan.

How, you probably know as much, if not more than this author about these cases. He's a local man, so he knows some of the local history, which is useful. The book is not the comprehensive one ripper people would like to see, I'm afraid, but I think it may generate some interest, which would be nice. I've seen, on the net, some attempts to promote it, so maybe it will spur some more research. I spent the 12 bucks, because I knew that later I'd wish I had, and that it would be gone if I went back to get it.

Sorry I can't say more about the shoes right now. If more comes up, I'll let you know, How.


One frustrating thing is that the newspapers had so little to say early on, until the Journal caught on that these were serial killings, so who knows what details are forever missing. Also, for the pre-1911 killings, the address of the victim is more often cited than where the bodies were found. Although we know they were shot, mostly.

[Howard Brown]

Cellie:

Thanks very much for the response.
It just dawned on me...one of those sperm of the moment things....that maybe those women weren't wearing shoes in the first place.

[Celesta]

Cellie:

Thanks very much for the response.
It just dawned on me...one of those sperm of the moment things....that maybe those women weren't wearing shoes in the first place.

Not a bad thought, either.

[Celesta]

Missing Shoes

Wells lists 3 victims as missing shoes:

July 10, 1911: Sadie Holley

Aug. 30, 1911: Mary Ann Duncan--Shoes 'removed and missing.'

Early November: Minne Wise---Shoes cut off and removed.

The author states that the taking of the shoes and, in one case, the removal of a portion of a finger, as souvenirs, is used to support the 'theory' that these murders were serial killings.

[Howard Brown]

Cellie:

Thanks very much for sharing that...
I think it unlikely that those three victims weren't killed by the same man, considering the choice of this strange "souvenir", that being the shoes.