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  • #46
    It might be of interest that the Annie Speer made more than one voyage to Iquique, Chili. There is a long article in Lloyd's List on 14 October 1893 describing a court case where the master was successfully prosecuted and fined for grossly overloading the ship with nitrate of soda during a similar voyage in April 1892.

    Here's the first section.

    Annie Speer 1893.jpg

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Markus Aurelius Franzoi View Post
      Brame could be a Roslyn D'Onston character - a total fantasist. Then again, couldn't he be someone trying to tell a truthful story and/or believable one while hiding a particular indiscretion? How about desertion and drunkeness? It's the same as any one trying to tell what really happened that doesn't include him murdering or robbing someone.
      If you are inclined to give credence to the story, here is someone that might be worth looking at. He is Swedish, though, and not Danish.

      There is a sailor named John Anderson, born Uppsala, Sweden in 1861, who is in the Dreadnought Hospital in March/April 1892 suffering from secondary syphilis, which would fit Brame's story.

      John Anderson Dreadnought.jpg
      John Anderson.jpg



      He is likely to be the same John Anderson who is listed on a vessel in Chesire in the 1881 census, described as a "ship's cook" (his place of birth is also Uddevalla, but spelled incorrectly) which is another potential match.

      He seems to be the same bloke who was bouncing around Hull in the early 1880s. Presumably his English would have been pretty good by the 1890s.

      He may be hard to pin-down, because there was at least one or two other sailors named John Anderson, born Sweden around 1861, that shows up in the records.
      Last edited by R. J. Palmer; May 13, 2022, 06:21 PM. Reason: Corrected to Uppsala, Sweden

      Comment


      • #48
        I agree we’re looking for Swedish Dane or a Danish Swede, and someone suffering from advanced syphilis.

        Frank Anderson spent 5 months in the Dreadnaught Seaman’s Hospital in 1892 with a necrosis. He also was in for two weeks in 91 with a hydrocele.

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        • #49
          The cook John Anderson could be the John Anderson IDed by the authorities during their investigation. I don’t know that Brame mentioned Anderson was also a fellow cook.

          Here’s a possible match on the ship Catalonia. He’s listed under the 1st Pantry Steward as some type of Steward and there’s a signature that looks like Johan.

          https://www.ancestry.ca/discoveryui-...=successSource

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Markus Aurelius Franzoi View Post
            The cook John Anderson could be the John Anderson IDed by the authorities during their investigation. I don’t know that Brame mentioned Anderson was also a fellow cook.

            Here’s a possible match on the ship Catalonia. He’s listed under the 1st Pantry Stewart as some type of Stewart and there’s a signature that looks like Johan.

            https://www.ancestry.ca/discoveryui-...=successSource
            I couldn't make your link work but I think I was looking at the same entry last night and agree that this is probably the same John Anderson, ship's cook, from Uppsala Sweden as listed in the 1881 census and elsewhere. In 1881 he was near Merseyside and the above has him in Liverpool, so it might well work.

            The handwriting is appalling, but I think it says "steerage steward," so he's the low man on the totem pole.

            steerage steward.jpg

            It does fit Brame's account insofar as his suspect worked as a ship's cook in 1888, but later signed on as an AB seaman. It would be interesting to confirm if he was the same JA with secondary syphilis in 1892, though that Anderson is listed as an MS--which I take to be midshipman. Syphilis can be latent for some months or years after the initial infection, so it is not impossible that someone with an outbreak in 1892 was infected in 1888 or earlier if we want to go the full nine yards.

            Thanks for the posts.

            Comment


            • #51
              I see now in post one where the early “breaking news” article says it was Anderson who told Brame he was a cook in 1888.

              And, according to the report, Anderson told Brame it was on weekly ships on the London Rotterdam runs which was one of the early Ripper theories, even held by Queen Victoria. So that part might be derivative. This JA cook was on the Catalonia in 1886 which I believe is a passenger ship.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Markus Aurelius Franzoi View Post
                This JA cook was on the Catalonia in 1886 which I believe is a passenger ship.
                Yes, that appears to be the case. It was a passenger ship and he is the steward for the steerage passengers. The John Anderson in the 1881 Census born in Sweden (around 1861) is a cook on a much smaller vessel.

                He is on Line 5 below. John Anderson, 20 (ie.,1861) ship's cook, born Uppsala, Sweden.


                Lile.jpg

                There is only the master and five crew members. The Lile was a three-masted schooner from Plymouth, but at the time of the census it is docked in Wallasey, Merseyside.

                Lile 2.jpg

                An article from 1901 states that the Lile was known for shipping "china clay" and "coal" so apparently its route was between Plymouth and Liverpool. There were kaolin (China Clay) mines in Cornwall.

                It could be the same bloke as the 1886 steward, but it's hard to say.

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                • #53
                  It might be noted that the John Anderson in the hospital for secondary syphilis in March/April 1892 is listed as an 'MS' --which I take to mean midshipman but in the modern U.S. navy it means "Mess Specialist"---cook. I don't think this was ever the case in the UK.

                  I'm still not clear how this ties to anyone who died in Iquique, Chili, unless Brame is really gilding the lily and turning the elderly Danish shoemaker into the Anderson he knew (or may have known) as a cook in the UK in the 1880s. A working theory could be that he is taking events from his own life, and perhaps mixing them with elements of people he met and knew, and then weaving them into a cohesive tale where this 'John Anderson' was the Ripper. Maybe Brame himself was a cook on a cattle boat.



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                  • #54
                    I found another entry for the Catalina steerage steward John Anderson and he says he’s from Calmar. That’s 500 km from Upsalla. So it’s probably a different guy.

                    Brame’s part of the story checks out so far (except for possible omissions related to “desertion”) and it’s definitely John Anderson’s part that contains the delusions and/or outright lies.

                    It could be a Joe Barnett/MJK scenario. Only part of her immediate background story checked out.

                    Maybe, instead of Brame, it was Anderson who was putting elements of Brame’s life such as occupation in his story.

                    Anyway, I don’t think a John Anderson cook can be linked to a dead John Anderson in Chile who said he was a ship’s cook during the murders and then supposedly settled down on a farm in Bromley at the same time and committed more murders in London as a ship’s watchman. None of that seems to be confirmed or actually investigated as we were led to believe.

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                    • #55
                      Here's another long shot. This time a Norwegian able-bodied seaman, deserted in Iquique in 1875, but back to sailing a few years later.
                      John Anderson
                      Crew
                      21
                      abt 1854
                      Norway
                      Nellie Moody
                      Barque
                      8 Jul 1875
                      Quebec, Canada
                      5 Mar 1877
                      Havre, France
                      Y873018
                      Yarmouth, Nova Scotia
                      1873
                      12 Jul 1875
                      Canada, Quebec
                      12
                      Signed name
                      No
                      21 Dec 1875
                      Iquique Chile, Chile
                      Deserted
                      Norwegian
                      3
                      Able-bodied Seaman
                      By the month
                      306
                      Sterling
                      612
                      Sterling

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by R. J. Palmer View Post
                        Here's another long shot. This time a Norwegian able-bodied seaman, deserted in Iquique in 1875, but back to sailing a few years later.
                        If nothing else, this does prove that sailors will desert in Iquique, Chile, as I suspected that Brame did, long before Anderson died.

                        The signed death-bed confession might have given Brame incentive to return to the English-speaking world with his prize, although he could have gone to the Chilean newspapers. Maybe he thought he'd fetch a better price in the US or Britain, or he was distancing himself from the location before going public for whatever reason. He obviously didn't think he'd be shipwrecked and lose it.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          As far as the occupation shoemaker goes, couldn’t he have said Sjöman and they thought he said shoeman?

                          It could be the proverbial clerical error. So he's a sailor instead of a shoemaker which makes sense as his address (presumably given by him without the mention of the actual city which possibly would mean legal internment there) was that of a Naval Village where presumably there was a Seaman's Rest House.
                          Last edited by Markus Aurelius Franzoi; June 8, 2022, 01:28 AM. Reason: wrong city for Esmeralda St

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Johannes Anderson's address was registered at death as 21 Esmeralda (Post 18). That would be directly across the street from the offices of North and Jewell. They were British merchants in the nitrate business and were tenants in 10, 12 and 14 Esmeralda St.

                            John Thomas North was nicknamed The Nitrate King. RJ's post at the top of this page is about the Annie Speer being overloaded with her cargo of nitrate.

                            https://www.google.ca/books/edition/...sec=frontcover

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                            • #59
                              As for the occupation shoemaker, couldn't he have just replied sjöman and they thought he said shoeman?

                              Again, it could just be a clerical error or a misinterpretation.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Markus Aurelius Franzoi View Post
                                As for the occupation shoemaker, couldn't he have just replied sjöman and they thought he said shoeman?

                                Again, it could just be a clerical error or a misinterpretation.
                                An interesting suggestion, but I don't think the pronunciation of sjöman sounds anything like shoe.

                                The sj sound is like the noise one makes in the back of the throat just before spitting phlegm into the gutter.

                                The Swedish SJ sound or 7-sound (the most difficult sound?) - Swedish pronunciation - YouTube

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