I guess it would depend more on how it sounds to a Spanish registrar. Isn’t the sh sound obsolete in Spanish?
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I guess it would depend more on how it sounds to a Spanish registrar. Isn’t the sh sound obsolete in Spanish?
But think it’s a moot point to debate the particulars of any of the various entries provided by a possible Ripper confessor/fantasist who reportedly said he was variously a sea cook and a ship’s guard as well as a former sailor, and said his father was a surgeon, especially when the person he’s talking to is a cook and the son of a surgeon.
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Here’s a link to an old street map of Iquique. It shows the hospital near one of the two cemeteries.
It’s from 1895, the same year Brame and his Anderson were reportedly there, and Johannes Anderson was definitely there.
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In this example there are a couple of errors by comparison including age given as 6 years older.
Jean Baptiste POISMANS
in Ancestry Family Trees
1855–1895
BIRTH 24 JAN 1855 • Crisnée (Thys),4367,Liège,Wallonie,BELGIQUE,
DEATH 21 MAY 1895 • Iquique, Iquique,Tarapaca,CHILI,
Parents
Pierre Joseph POISMANS
Anne Catherine POISMANS
40 years old
Occupation: 1881 Farmer, 1891 Worker
Status: Married Jul 1891 to Marie Élisabeth ISTA
Juan Bautista Poimans Poismans
in the Chile, Civil Registration, 1885-1903
ViewJuan Bautista Poimans Poismans b. 1849 21 Mayo 1895 Iquique, Iquique, Tarapacá, Chile Pierre Poismans Catalina Poismans
46 years old
Occupation: Farmer
Status: Single
Cause of Death: Balusic Caquedia (?)
Informant: Party of the Admin of the Hospital (?)
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This was the first and only example I found so far for comparison.
JB Poismans (above) died in the Iquique hospital like John Anderson supposedly did.
With a Belgian accent his mother Catherine becomes Catalina in the Civil Register. Maybe it's something to do with the pronunciation of the letter r.
He was a “employe” or worker at his marriage in Belgium in 1891 and he’s a farmer in the Register. He was listed as a farmer in Belgium in 1881, according to the unsourced Family Tree record but I doubt he was anything other than a farmhand in Chile since he arrived after his marriage in 1891 and he died in 1894.
His age is also 6 years off.
I’ll check for his wife later. P.S. His wife did not join him in Chile. He is listed as single - another inaccuracy.
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James E Brame
in the Canada, Seafarers of the Atlantic Provinces, 1789-1935James E Brame Crew 36 b abt 1847 Suffolk, Virginia, USA Wellington Ship Dep 20 Aug 1883 Liverpool, England Arr. 5 Feb 1884 Liverpool, England W865029 Windsor, Nova Scotia 1865 Joined 22 Aug 1883 Liverpool, England Crew no 5 Signed name No Disch. 11 Dec 1883 New York City, New York, USA Deserted Last ship Same ship Co from last ship 3 Steward By the month 400 Sterling
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Originally posted by R. J. Palmer View Post
I've always been intrigued (if skeptical) of Brame's story, and it is fantastic to see these records have been digitized, but are we sure this is the right answer?
A sixty-four year old Danish shoemaker--which, the name aside, is quite a stretch for the man described by Brame.
I think it’s still possible he heard a deathbed confession from the shoemaker Johannes Anderson and he made a “Brame Stoker” story out of it.
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Originally posted by Kattrup View PostThere are a few Johannes Andersen born in the right year and listed as shoemakers. One decent candidate would be Johannes Vigand or Wigand Andersen, born 1832 in Vejle. The reason he is perhaps a little more relevant than some of the others is that he seems to be no longer listed in census information after 1860. Perhaps indicating that he emigrated.
Johannes Wigant Andersen
in the 1860 Denmark CensusJohannes Wigant Andersen Mandlig (Male) Ugift (Single) 27 1833 Veile 1860 Residence: Roskilde Købstad, Sømme, København (Kobenhavn), Danmark (Denmark) Skomagersvend Lutherske 20 28 Christian Lauritz Godtlib Zahle 37 Skomagermester Karen Emilie F. Dreier 30 Kone (Wife) Ida Schalotte Natalie Zahle 4 Barn (Child) Niels Wilhelm Sophus Zahle 2 Barn (Child) Laiaras Rasmus Møller 42 Skomagersvend Johannes Wigant Andersen 27 Skomagersvend Samuel Johansen 25 Skomagersvend Wilhelm Løitenberger 24 Skomagersvend Niels Peter Jensen 20 Skomagersvend Lauritz Godtlib Dreyer 21 Lærling
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Originally posted by Markus Aurelius Franzoi View PostSkomagersvend translates as shoemaker’s friend. Vend would be friend (or assistant?) and not derived from vendere (sell) as per my wild guess.
mester=master
Svend=journeyman
So a skomagermester is an artisan with his own workshop, employing a number of journeymen and apprentices
both svend and ven are etymologically old Nordic words, roots of Sveinn “free man in another’s service” and Vinr “person to whom one is unrelated but whose company one enjoys”
So no Latin vendere, it’s barbary all the way down
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Originally posted by Markus Aurelius Franzoi View PostHere’s a link to an old street map of Iquique. It shows the hospital near one of the two cemeteries.
It’s from 1895, the same year Brame and his Anderson were reportedly there, and Johannes Anderson was definitely there.
Here's another link to the same map which can be enlarged to as big as one would wish to go:
File:Iquique 1895.png - Wikimedia Commons
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Originally posted by Markus Aurelius Franzoi View PostNAME OF THE APPEARING PARTY [WITNESS/INFORMANT]
name Pedersen Jorje
age thirty-two years
profession trader
domicile Bolivar 111
witness of the identity believed by the officer
confirmed the death by document 41
Iquique.jpg
FAMILIA PEDERSEN - HISTORIA DE VALDIVIA - CHILE
https://historiadevaldivia-chile.blogspot.com › ...
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PEDERSEN KIELMAN 1 JORGE PEDERSEN (DINAMARCA 1874-). CASADO CON MARÍA KIELMAN [VAR. KJELMAN]. HIJOS: 1.1 ANA LUISA PEDERSEN KIELMAN (IQUIQUE
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