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  • #61
    I guess it would depend more on how it sounds to a Spanish registrar. Isn’t the sh sound obsolete in Spanish?

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    • #62
      I guess it would depend more on how it sounds to a Spanish registrar. Isn’t the sh sound obsolete in Spanish?

      But think it’s a moot point to debate the particulars of any of the various entries provided by a possible Ripper confessor/fantasist who reportedly said he was variously a sea cook and a ship’s guard as well as a former sailor, and said his father was a surgeon, especially when the person he’s talking to is a cook and the son of a surgeon.

      Comment


      • #63
        Here’s a link to an old street map of Iquique. It shows the hospital near one of the two cemeteries.

        It’s from 1895, the same year Brame and his Anderson were reportedly there, and Johannes Anderson was definitely there.

        https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/7869...p-1895-vintage

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        • #64
          I can look at some other civil registrations of foreign deaths and compare to home documents and family trees to see if there are errors in translation, etc.

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          • #65
            In this example there are a couple of errors by comparison including age given as 6 years older.


            Jean Baptiste POISMANS
            in Ancestry Family Trees


            1855–1895


            BIRTH 24 JAN 1855 • Crisnée (Thys),4367,Liège,Wallonie,BELGIQUE,
            DEATH 21 MAY 1895 • Iquique, Iquique,Tarapaca,CHILI,

            Parents
            Pierre Joseph POISMANS
            Anne Catherine POISMANS
            40 years old
            Occupation: 1881 Farmer, 1891 Worker

            Status: Married Jul 1891 to
            Marie Élisabeth ISTA






            Juan Bautista Poimans Poismans
            in the Chile, Civil Registration, 1885-1903
            ViewBelgian
            46 years old
            Occupation: Farmer
            Status: Single
            Cause of Death: Balusic Caquedia (?)
            Informant: Party of the Admin of the Hospital (?)

            Comment


            • #66
              This was the first and only example I found so far for comparison.

              JB Poismans (above) died in the Iquique hospital like John Anderson supposedly did.

              With a Belgian accent his mother Catherine becomes Catalina in the Civil Register. Maybe it's something to do with the pronunciation of the letter r.

              He was a “employe” or worker at his marriage in Belgium in 1891 and he’s a farmer in the Register. He was listed as a farmer in Belgium in 1881, according to the unsourced Family Tree record but I doubt he was anything other than a farmhand in Chile since he arrived after his marriage in 1891 and he died in 1894.

              His age is also 6 years off.

              I’ll check for his wife later. P.S. His wife did not join him in Chile. He is listed as single - another inaccuracy.

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              • #67
                James E Brame
                in the Canada, Seafarers of the Atlantic Provinces, 1789-1935
                James E Brame
                Crew
                36
                b abt 1847
                Suffolk, Virginia, USA
                Wellington
                Ship
                Dep 20 Aug 1883
                Liverpool, England
                Arr. 5 Feb 1884
                Liverpool, England
                W865029
                Windsor, Nova Scotia
                1865
                Joined 22 Aug 1883
                Liverpool, England
                Crew no 5
                Signed name
                No
                Disch. 11 Dec 1883
                New York City, New York, USA
                Deserted
                Last ship Same ship
                Co from last ship 3
                Steward
                By the month
                400
                Sterling

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by R. J. Palmer View Post

                  I've always been intrigued (if skeptical) of Brame's story, and it is fantastic to see these records have been digitized, but are we sure this is the right answer?
                  A sixty-four year old Danish shoemaker--which, the name aside, is quite a stretch for the man described by Brame.
                  Well, I no longer believe Brame’s story because his W H Corsair shipwreck story proved false.

                  I think it’s still possible he heard a deathbed confession from the shoemaker Johannes Anderson and he made a “Brame Stoker” story out of it.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Kattrup View Post
                    There are a few Johannes Andersen born in the right year and listed as shoemakers. One decent candidate would be Johannes Vigand or Wigand Andersen, born 1832 in Vejle. The reason he is perhaps a little more relevant than some of the others is that he seems to be no longer listed in census information after 1860. Perhaps indicating that he emigrated.
                    I think this candidate is worth a look. Since we know that Brame more than spiced up his stories, I don't think we're wedded to the "30 year old sailor" or even that he was on the Annie Speer. The 1896 Civil Record of the 64 year old shoemaker might be the only thing corroborating the story of a John Anderson who died in Iquique c. 1895.


                    Johannes Wigant Andersen

                    in the 1860 Denmark Census
                    Johannes Wigant Andersen
                    Mandlig (Male)
                    Ugift (Single)
                    27
                    1833
                    Veile
                    1860
                    Residence: Roskilde Købstad, Sømme, København (Kobenhavn), Danmark (Denmark)
                    Skomagersvend
                    Lutherske
                    20
                    28
                    Christian Lauritz Godtlib Zahle 37 Skomagermester
                    Karen Emilie F. Dreier 30 Kone (Wife)
                    Ida Schalotte Natalie Zahle 4 Barn (Child)
                    Niels Wilhelm Sophus Zahle 2 Barn (Child)
                    Laiaras Rasmus Møller 42 Skomagersvend
                    Johannes Wigant Andersen 27 Skomagersvend
                    Samuel Johansen 25 Skomagersvend
                    Wilhelm Løitenberger 24 Skomagersvend
                    Niels Peter Jensen 20 Skomagersvend
                    Lauritz Godtlib Dreyer 21 Lærling

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Skomagersvend translates as shoemaker’s friend. Vend would be friend (or assistant?) and not derived from vendere (sell) as per my wild guess.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Markus Aurelius Franzoi View Post
                        Skomagersvend translates as shoemaker’s friend. Vend would be friend (or assistant?) and not derived from vendere (sell) as per my wild guess.
                        Skomager=shoemaker
                        mester=master
                        Svend=journeyman

                        So a skomagermester is an artisan with his own workshop, employing a number of journeymen and apprentices


                        both svend and ven are etymologically old Nordic words, roots of Sveinn “free man in another’s service” and Vinr “person to whom one is unrelated but whose company one enjoys”
                        So no Latin vendere, it’s barbary all the way down

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          No shoe salesmen? So no Al Bundys?

                          Shoemakers/repair men came in second place in the survey of Top Skilled Jobs for serial killers. To include shoe repair, the survey data would have to go back a long way. I believe the results were published in 2018.

                          https://www.macleans.ca/society/the-...r-and-cop/amp/

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Markus Aurelius Franzoi View Post
                            Here’s a link to an old street map of Iquique. It shows the hospital near one of the two cemeteries.

                            It’s from 1895, the same year Brame and his Anderson were reportedly there, and Johannes Anderson was definitely there.

                            Here's another link to the same map which can be enlarged to as big as one would wish to go:

                            File:Iquique 1895.png - Wikimedia Commons

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              I got Johannes Wigant Anderson dying with his middle name spelled Vigand in 1877.

                              We have to look elsewhere.

                              https://www.ancestry.ca/discoveryui-...=successSource

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Markus Aurelius Franzoi View Post
                                NAME OF THE APPEARING PARTY [WITNESS/INFORMANT]

                                name Pedersen Jorje
                                age thirty-two years
                                profession trader
                                domicile Bolivar 111
                                witness of the identity believed by the officer
                                confirmed the death
                                by document 41

                                Iquique.jpg
                                Jorge Pedersen also appears to be Danish according to this family history. I'm guessing his given name was originally Jørgen.

                                FAMILIA PEDERSEN - HISTORIA DE VALDIVIA - CHILE

                                https://historiadevaldivia-chile.blogspot.com › ...
                                · Translate this page
                                PEDERSEN KIELMAN 1 JORGE PEDERSEN (DINAMARCA 1874-). CASADO CON MARÍA KIELMAN [VAR. KJELMAN]. HIJOS: 1.1 ANA LUISA PEDERSEN KIELMAN (IQUIQUE

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