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***Martin Fido's Asylum Research : The Notes***

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  • Robert Linford
    replied
    Happy Birthday Martin, from Robert.


    Happy Birthday sonny, from How.

    Leave a comment:


  • Howard Brown
    replied
    Speaking of Mr. Fido....today is his birthday...

    Happy 79th.

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  • Robert Linford
    replied
    Brilliant!

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  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
    Blimey those notes are neat! No 'remember to get teabags' and suchlike.
    Given that this is Ripper-related, they'd be Netley Tea Bags, of course. (Apologies if that makes no sense to our non-UK friends )

    Leave a comment:


  • Gary Barnett
    replied
    Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
    Blimey those notes are neat! No 'remember to get teabags' and suchlike.
    Which probably explains the lack of tea stains.

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  • Robert Linford
    replied
    Blimey those notes are neat! No 'remember to get teabags' and suchlike.

    Leave a comment:


  • Howard Brown
    replied
    Bump Up

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  • Mike Covell
    replied
    Thanks for sharing Martin, and thanks for posting How. Having been privy to some of the Islington Workhouse Records, and Poor Law Records in Howden I know how frustrating they can be, so appreciate the material posted here and the many hours it must have taken to collect it and write it all down.

    Leave a comment:


  • Howard Brown
    replied
    Nice going, Frank

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  • Frank Forster
    replied
    NO Kaminsky OR
    WEISSMAN in
    Whitechapel parish electors,
    1923.


    Poplar Lunatics -
    Lewis G. Isaacs born 1874
    of 8 Addington Rd, Bow, (9 months
    residence) Admitted Colney Hatch
    13.2.92 Transferred to
    Leavesden 31.5.92
    Father - Samuel Isaac of above
    address
    -------------------------------------------
    Mile End Old Town Infirmary -
    Creeds Register 1887-92
    No Kaminsky or Golinsky

    Whitechapel Infirmary -
    Admission + Discharge, 1889-90
    Asylum discharges and
    Hebrew admissions during March 1889:
    Simon Gripsbeam act 19, Single
    Slipper-maker 1 Heneage St. The itch(?)
    1 week settlement. Adm Mar 5th disch 18th

    Gabriel Rosenberg, of 1 Heneage St,
    act 25, married, tailor, skin eruption
    9 weeks settlement. adm 7th disch 13th

    Barnett Levy, act 84, hawker of 2
    Thrawl Street, widower, [?], [?]
    2 month settlement adm 7th disch 18th
    [?] again with hernia, 19th-25th + again 31st
    ----------------------------------------------
    1889-92.)

    Edward [?], act 39, single, carman
    of 12 Prince's St. Cof E. adm
    7th March with [?] Disch to
    Banstead 15th

    Martin[?] Jennings, act 48, [line crossed out]
    labourer of [line crossed out]
    William Christy [?], 52,
    Cab Proprietor(?) of 97 Backchurch
    Lane, admitted insane 7th March,
    disch to Banstead 15th
    Abrahem Woodwide, act 57,
    widower shoemoaker of 16 [?] Garden St.
    adm 12 Mch with sprained ankle:
    disch 8th April

    John Thomas Milnes, 46 yr old basket case maker
    of 10 Artillery(?) St, insane - adm 20th
    March : disch to Banstead 3 March 1890
    ---------------------------------------------
    Lewis Kahn, 37 yr old RC
    Cabinet maker married of 10
    Cotton St adm. Insane 20th March
    discharged 18th April

    Louis Young, 31 yr old single
    [?] of 1 Heneage St,
    single, adm with bronchitis 22nd:
    disch 13th April (V [?]
    address - at least 3 Gentiles from
    there in, too!)

    Solomon Goldstein, 32 yr old
    married hawker(?) of 17 Gun St.
    adm with p[h]thisis, 26 March,
    disch 13th April

    Isaiah Doitsch, 30 yr old
    * Single clerk of 99 Brunswick Bdgs
    admitted insane 7.30 pm,
    37th March. Died 27th april
    -----------------------------------------
    * [?] of [?] Plough st,
    admitted insane 5.25 pm,
    March 28th. Disch to
    Colney Hatch, 6th April

    END OF MARCH
    SPECIALS


    Michael Kidney -
    36. From workhouse
    with syphilis. 11th June - 24th
    40 From 12 Thrawl St
    with lumbago, 17th Aug 30th Sept
    40 Oct 11th from 12 Thrawl
    St with dyspepsia. Dischgd 15th

    END OF
    WHITECHAPEL INF,
    1889-90
    ----------------------------------------------
    NO Grolinsky in
    Whitechapel Infirmary

    Admission + Discharge
    book, 1897-98

    But, in that book,
    Rebecca Kaminsky, act 58,
    wife of Jacob Kaminsky (tailor)
    of 1a Upper Chapman St,
    admitted with hemiplegia.
    Daughter Dinah said t be the
    sane

    Solomon Goblinski - certified
    permanently for Leavesden,
    March 13, 1899
    Data in Whitechapel Register of lunatics
    in workhouse, 1888-9 (was there
    3 days before certification.)
    -------------------------------------------
    Sept 24th 1895 - Claybury Asylum
    received(?) "Jim The Polisher"
    (Bethnal Green book)
    Seen - City of London
    Bethnal Green, -1888-95
    Poplar Shoreditch
    Nathan Karnsky.
    Born 1872. Admitted Colney Hatch
    21 Dec 1899. Died there 9 July 1908
    (in Bethnal Green book)

    Edio(?) Karminskio(?) - apparently b. c. 1812 Admitted
    Claybury (for Hackney) 28.9.93 N-o-[?] unknown
    Name given
    as KARONSKY in X20-13
    workhouse X20/12
    records
    N Karnsky, to Workhouse, May 8th
    13.6.99 To Bethnal House Asylum
    May 13th Tranferred to London County
    (=Heath Asylum) Asylum, Besley Dec. 21st
    Date of birth now given as 1868
    29 in 1902, 30 1903
    -----------------------------------------
    Whitechapel Infirmary

    Moses Kosseman - discharged 11.3.89
    folio 360


    Herman Kremp - discharged 9.3.89
    Died of bronchitis folio 4 3 00 X 712.

    Samuel Kline - disch. 17.5.89
    folio 713

    Sigfried Karpelles - disch 8.6.89
    folio 743

    Freden de Kijop (?) disch 1.3.90
    folio 4600
    -----------------------------------------
    Folio - w. 436
    Andrew Anderson - Age 25. From Sailor's Home
    Single. Seaman. Mani[crossed out] Adm for
    mania. 2 yrs settlement Hebrew
    Disch 12.6.89 to Leavesden Asylum


    F. 521 Hyam Hyams. Age 34
    adm from 4 Bell Court. General [?]
    married. Weak mind. Hebrew
    Disch 14.4.89 to Colney Hatch

    f. 743 Sigfried Karpelles - Age 20, Adm
    from 12 Thrawl St. Single, Salesman.
    [?]. Hebrew. 3 weeks
    disch. 8.3.89

    f. 939 Charles Simmonds, Age 65 Of 26
    Newnham St Widower Butcher
    Mental aberration. 3 months. To
    Colney Hatch 18.6.89
    -----------------------------------------
    F. 2082. Morris Levin. Age 33.
    101 Turner St. Tailor
    Insanity. Hebrew. To Banstead Asylum

    F 2316 Isaac De Fries. Age 22.
    318 Mile End Rd, London Hospital
    Fish Porter. Insane. Hebrew 21.9.89
    to Colney Hatch


    F 2434.
    Israel Schatzki Age 33 P.C. H303
    found in Tewson's Court. Married.
    Furrier(?). Insane. Hebrew Disch.
    22.11.89
    --------------------------------------------
    No 18 1888
    23
    b. 1865

    FF 1168. Nathan Kaminsky Age 23.
    15 Black Lion Yard, [?]
    Bootmaker. Adm for syphilis
    [?] March 24th 1888 5.30 pm.
    Hebrew. 12 months settlement. Disch
    12.5.88

    35
    +23
    58
    [?] Rd [?] Library 1923
    981-6630 61
    Other Kaminsky 16 1862
    61 in 19
    --------------------------------------------
    St Marylebone Register of Lunatics
    NO

    Shoreditch Register of [?]


    Poplar 1889-97 NO
    1877-88 NO

    City of London

    Frederick Krettch(?), b 1844, no known
    address dangerous to others incarcerated
    Stone 3 Jan 88, disch 12 June 88

    Nathan Leonard Koetosk, age 48,
    admitted from City Infirmary to Stone 25 Feb 1896
    Discharged to " " from Stone 29 Dec 1897
    Nathan Leonard Koetosk back in
    Stone from Infirmary 11 June 1898
    * adjudic(?) to Willesden, June 1899
    ----------------------------------------------

    Bermondsey 1867-92
    NO


    Hackney 1887-1901
    NO

    St Pancras NO

    Holborn NO





    -------------------------------------------
    STEPNEY LUNATICS
    Stepney M.E.O.T. Lunatics Register Sep. 1892-97
    Aaron Sanders d. Colney Hatch, 10 Oct 1902
    Admitted 27 Oct 1892. Supposed 9 days
    insane. Father Moses Sanders, 92 Mile End Rd

    Lewis Benjamin, alias Abraham Jacobs
    (brother Joseph Benjamin, 10 Fieldgate
    SN, Whitechapel) Adjudicateted to
    Stepney from Cardiff Union, when in
    Glamorgan County Asylum, 4.1.92
    Previously Winson Green Asylum, B'ham
    from 1.12.91 Escaped 8.10.92 Discharged
    22.10.92 D.o.b. unknown *to see below

    Morris Schafkin, b. 1871. No relations
    known. Colney Hatch 1.12.93

    Abraham Hochmanovich or Mouchmonour,
    b. 1867, Father, Noah Mouchmonour
    88 Chambers St, Leman St Transferred
    from Leavesden to Colney Hatch 1.2.94
    D. 19.4.07
    -------------------------------------------------
    Isaac Abrahams, b. 1847. Wife
    Rachel A. of 11 Calverly St, Mile E
    Adm. Colney Hatch 4.9.85, D. 14.2

    Louis Rozinski b. 1865, wife Annie R
    16 Baker St, Commercial Rd. Adm
    Colney Hatch 22.11.95 Disch
    14.5.97

    Edward Cohen, b 1855, wife Leah C. of
    114 Wentworth St. Cornwell St E,
    Adm. Colney Hatch 23.6.97 Adjnd to
    Whitechapel Bd 18.3.98

    Whitechapel - 1897
    Nacher Marks(?) sent to Colney Hatch July 27

    Isaac Schmidoski, refined by police
    30.7.97: Adm Colney Hatch 7.8.97

    ---------------------------------------------
    Lewis Benjamin - Police brought -
    Oct 19, 1898. Doctors said sane
    Wynne Baxter (now JP) sent him
    to General Ward

    Jacob Weinberg - To Colney Hatch
    Nov 3rd 1898

    Solomon Golinski - certified for
    permanent detention, Leavesden
    13.3.89

    CHARLES GEORGE LUDWIG - brought -
    to Whitechapal by Police as lunatic
    11th March, 1897 Discharged is
    fir, 27th Mrach [Register of Lunatics
    in Whitechapel Workhouse]

    Hyman Brodski to Colney Hatch
    14 4 97
    ---------------------------------------------------
    MOST IMPORTANT
    STEPNEY - LIST
    Register of Whitechapel Lunatics in
    Asylums, 1879-1899

    David Cohen, act 23, from 86
    Leman Street Relatives unknown,
    Adm. Dec. 21 88 sent to Colney Hatch
    Died Oct 20 89

    Isaac Cohen, act 31, Adm from
    30 Dorset St 12.12.90
    Relatives unknown

    George Cordell, age 25 adm from
    104 Lohesworth Bdgs. Father, Geor. C
    of same address Discharge on Dec 11
    1891 struck out (?)
    (admitted Banstead, 12.11.88)

    Thomas Debney, 35 of 30 Flowery Dean
    adm Colney Hatch 17.10.89 Trans to
    Leavesden. 19.10.96
    ----------------------------------------------------
    Thomas Donoghue, age 38, of 90 Old
    Montague St (wife Sarah)[crossed out] Elizabeth)
    Admitted Banstead, Nov 16, 1888
    d. Feb 1891

    Hyam Hyams, age 34, adm Colney Hatch
    from 4 Bell Court, adm. 1889
    Disch August 1889

    William Christian [?], age 52 of
    97 Back Church Lane, to
    Banstead, March 1889

    Morris Jacobs Age 30, Address + relatives
    unknown, Admitted Colney Hatch
    10 Aug. 92 Transferred Leavesden.
    May 94

    Charles Jenkins, Age 42 of 15 Dorset St
    No friends Adm Cane Hill, June 92
    -----------------------------------------------------
    Mades Karinski, Age 22, Address + relatives
    unknown, to Colney Hatch,
    May 1899

    Emmanuel Koch, Age 48 of 41
    Commercial Rd, no friends,
    adm. Cane Hill, May 92, transferred
    Gloucester County Asylum, Nov 94,
    d. March 96

    NO KOSMINSKI (or
    similar) from Whitechapel
    throughout


    Isaac Nathan, of 25 Sandy Row (father
    same name + address) Age 24 in
    1885, in Colney Hatch Dec 85 - Nov 86
    When discharged
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Israel Pearl, Age 16 of 14 Plough St (father
    Simon) adm. Colney Hatch Apr. 6, 89
    Disch. Aug. 30th 89

    John Francis Shackleton of 55 Flowery Dean
    (father Edw. of 25 Risinghill St, Pentonville Rd)
    age 32, adm Banstead 28.12.88, died
    1.9.89

    Geo. Smith, age 21, Criminal lunatic, refused
    to give next of kin admitted Banstead
    25 11 92 d 10.4.94

    Unknown Male from 12 Princelet St adm
    Colney Hatch, 10.12.95 died 14.1.96
    Age c.23

    Solomon White - no details - Adm City
    Asylum Stone, Feb 23, 1889:
    transferred Banstead Sep. 89

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  • Frank Forster
    replied
    I tried to make a transcription of Martin's notes. I could not decipher everything and I am not sure about some words which I thought I could decipher, so please take everything with a dose of salt.

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  • Howard Brown
    replied
    'Twas a labor of love,Martin,Neems...it's my pleasure.

    I've set up a thread for Andrew Anderson, Jewish seaman.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Thank you, How

    Thank you so much for that work, How.

    If anyone wanted to follow up the Hebrew seaman Andrew Anderson, they would be pursuing a line that interested me considerably, though I never had time to take it further.

    Martin F

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  • Paul Kearney A.K.A. NEMO
    replied
    Very nice Howard

    Many thanks Martin!

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Why workhouse infirmary records?

    Before people scream "Where are the ASYLUM records", I should point out that in 1986-7 when I did my work they were closed to the public under the 100-year rule. I had to go to the workhouse infirmary records and the quarterly dockets of pauper lunatics under the control of their parishes to find the names of inmates. After I had worked on these for some time, the curators of the GLC Archives told me that as I was a serious scholar, I should probably be permitted by asylums to see or be informed about their records. The only ones deposited in the archives were Colney Hatch's - the most important, happily, so those I saw directly myself. I only noted the data from them that interested me - and all the entries on Cohen and Kosminski are in the A-Z.

    For the other asylums, I telephoned and had librarians or archivists read out to me the entries on all the people I had traced through their referral data. I was too poor at the time to be able to afford travelling to Stone, Banstead or Leavesden, and the publishers' time constraint also argued against it.

    But what about private asylums and paying patients, you ask? Well, I wasn't concerned with them at all. I was following up my observations that Anderson's "poor Polish Jew' must have been Macnaghten's Kosminsky - (astonishingly never previously remarked) - and my discovery from reading all the senior police memoirs, and finding out as much as I could about those involved with the case, that Anderson (much to my surprise) was far and away the most reliable firsthand witness. This was something absolutely denied at that time by everyone except Richard Whittington-Egan and Donald Rumbelow. All other Ripperologists dismissed him as an empty liar who could have no reason except an attempt to save face for his pretences. Stephen Knight even made the erroneous claims that he was a Freemason and important party to the mythical Freemasons' plot, though Knight knew enough to see that Joe Sickert's silly claim that Anderson assisted in murdering Liz Stride couldn't be true. Nobody had done any research to support the anti-Anderson claims, which, then as now, were essentially being used to clear him out of the way in the interest of making the case for some other suspect.

    In the first instance I was only interested in finding Kosminski. And when the limitations of the records I had seen (stopping in 1890) led me to the wrong conclusions that he didn't exist and Macnaghten (demonstrably full of errors) had got the name wrong, I wanted to know who it really was they were talking about. This led me to David Cohen - so clear a fit that when I subsequently found Kosminski and saw at once that he was a most improbable Ripper candidate, I concluded that I was right about Cohen and there were hypothetical reasons for Macnaghten's misreading the name. (I was much influenced at that time by my discovery of Nathan Kaminsky, though I don't make much of him today: he is too completely a "coincidentally" fitting figure). Subsequently the Swanson marginalia emerged, and in trying to puzzle out their strange mixture of probable fact and implausible or inexplicable assertion, I suddenly realized that an unrecognized difference between two poor Whitechapel Jews followed respectively by the Met and the City would both explain many of the problems in the marginalia and offer a persuasive explanation for the confusion of Kosminski's name with Cohen that I had already postulated. American police officers with experience of overlapping jurisdictions have usually found this an extremely persuasive argument.

    With all that at the centre of my mind, I wasn't really concerned with private asylums or respectable-class suspects.

    All the best,,
    Martin F

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