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  • #16
    Originally posted by Neil I'anson View Post
    Hi all
    Hi Chris
    Thanks for that. It has got TJ and i thinking. However in my experience you would need to look more at the meat industry than just butchers. What i'm saying is a slaughterman is different to a butcher, who is different to a small meats butcher. There is a hierachy as in any trade.
    If i may, a couple of things about Abraham Levy's suicide.
    One of the reports we cited was from the Glasgow Herald. In this it stated that Abraham commited suicide due to gambling debts, however we could find no evidence of gambling in any way,shape or form. So why state this? Perhaps the answer lies in the fact that at this time,Glagow was almost puritanical in it's persecution of drinking,gambling and SIN. Is it possible that because Abraham commited suicide on Derby Day, the Herald manufactured a gambling slant to sell local papers?
    Another point that may be of interest is that due to Abrahams suicide, he could NOT be buried on consecrated ground. Yet, Tracy and I have evidence that Abraham WAS buried in a Jewish cemetry. From information supplied to us we believe that because Abrahams cause of death at the inquest was 'due to unsound mind' he was allowed to be buried in a consecrated cemetry. Could this reflect on the Levy's standing in the area, i wonder?
    Just a thought
    Keep Well
    Neil
    Thanks, Neil, for your thoughts on the reported 1868 Jewsbury (York) suicide of a butcher and for pointing out that a slaughterman and a butcher are different though related trades.

    In terms of the suicide of Abraham Levy, the coroner's inquest verdict of death by his own hand "due to unsound mind" might have been, as you say, because of the perceived standing in the community of the Levy family. But on the other hand, I believe it was a common practice for a coroner's jury to give such a verdict so the relatives could bury their loved one in consecrated ground, was it not? The regularity of that practice might shade out whatever standing the Levy family had as a factor in the verdict reached, conceivably.

    Best regards

    Chris
    Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
    https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

    Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
    Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

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    • #17
      Suicides were only buried in consecrated ground with the consent of the rector or whoever was responsible for the burial ground in a religious sense. This also only applied to Christian burials. If as I understand it Levy was Jewish a completely different set of rules may apply.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Phillip Walton View Post
        Suicides were only buried in consecrated ground with the consent of the rector or whoever was responsible for the burial ground in a religious sense. This also only applied to Christian burials. If as I understand it Levy was Jewish a completely different set of rules may apply.
        Thanks, Phillip.

        Chris
        Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
        https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

        Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
        Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

        Comment


        • #19
          Hi Steve

          Thanks - we were feeling quite smug with ourselves when we discovered the link, it took quite a while digging through all the Levy's families in the area.

          Hi Chris/Phillip

          The info I read was with regards to Jewish tradition, I will try to find it again.

          A complete guess Chris but maybe it is upto the specific individual who was in charge. A case of what one person classed as suicide whilst of unsound mind another would just class as suicide, but I did get the impression that they tried to class it as a case of whilst of unsound mind, probably more for the family. I suppose it could be argued that who would commit suicide while of sound mind?

          Tracy
          If you're going to be two-faced at least make one of them pretty.

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