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Don't let a Malay cook your dinner

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  • Don't let a Malay cook your dinner

    Anyone want to discuss Malay cooks?

  • #2

    "Anyone want to discuss Malay cooks?"

    I sure do...but from a distance.

    Any chance of a date for this most excellent clipping at bottom?

    That would sure be something if this cook was the same one who was in Austin in '85.

    How about that heart removal,as well?

    I have to ask this question in regard to prostitute behavior from the period....

    Despite the fact that a "dollar is a dollar"...or a shilling is a shilling no matter what....would the Whitechapel prostitutes,being almost entirely of native stock....prostitute themselves with men of color in the East End ?

    Thank you for these clippings A.P....they are very much appreciated.
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    • #3
      Good question How
      I do know one very enraged Jap who could answer that question in 1888, but I have to find the case again. Perhaps Debs or Robert has it on file somewhere?
      The interesting report on the Malay cook who rips hearts out is from December 31st 1891.


      • #4
        Dear A.P.

        That would be Sopijawan...who fripped his honorable rid in September of '88.

        "If you go away from me tonight I will rip you up the same as the woman was served in the Whitechapel Road ..."
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        • #5
          That's the chap, How.

          If you look at The Times report of 6th October 1888 concerning the 'Malay cook' you'll see that Dodge the seaman who tells the tale gives the name of his ship as the 'SS Glenorehy'; while in the second report I posted above the ship is given as the 'SS Glengarry'.
          Now that is damn close.


          • #6
            There is much that needs to be done in this regard, but I’m working on it. First off, the name of the ship from The Times report is actually the ‘Glenorchy’, one of the Glen Line steamers, and she was in dock in London at the required time to satisfy requirements in regard to what are commonly accepted as the ‘Whitechapel Murders’.
            That is from late August onwards of 1888.

            I have located the ‘Glengarry’ as featured in the 1891 story, and have a photo of her, but it is important to remember that Captain Lisle had transferred from this ship – with his Malay cook – onto another ship where it is said he was subsequently murdered by the Malay cook.
            This presents problems.
            However, given the string of murders in Austin, Texas, in 1885, where it is thought that a Malay cook might be implicated, I have found a steamship, commanded by a Captain Lisle that was in and out of Orange, Texas during 1885 and 1886, and she was called the ‘Extra’.
            As I said, a lot more work needs to be done.


            • #7
              The 'haunted' ghost ship 'Glencarry' in dock in Australia in 1885.


              • #8
                From Art Fazil in his article 'Is Jack the Ripper really a Mat?'

                'Recently, while researching on the Malay diaspora to gather materials for the London Malay Festival, I came across the case again.
                The London Times dated October 1889 reported that a Malay man who worked as a cook aboard ships had threatened to kill Whitechapel prostitutes, but he then disappeared. The Malay suspect was said to have gone by the name of Maurice.
                Now most of us would know that Maurice is neither a Malay nor Muslim name. I wondered perhaps his name could have been Mat Rais or Mat Deris. Mat is the abbreviation of Ahmad or Mohammad - a commonly-used Muslim name.
                The Anglo corruption could have possibly twisted Mat Rais or Mat Deris into Maurice. Just like how the Arabic Straits of Jabal Atar became the Straits of Gibraltar.
                But imagine, if one day, through some 'newly discovered evidence', Jack the Ripper turned out to be a Malay man. History would have to take a revolutionary turn to the Orient.
                Books would have to be re-written, scripts changed and films remade. And, who knows, perhaps there would be fresh openings in the film industry.
                And talents like my friend, the gifted poet and actor Rafaat Hamzah, or even myself, may jolly well get a role in a new Hollywood film about Jack the Ripper.
                But I would have to insist that it be renamed 'Mat the Ripper'.


                • #9
                  As I said, you really do not want these guys to be cooking your dinner.
                  From the 'Emporia Daily Gazette' of July 15th 1897 and the 'Daily Evening Bulletin' of April 16th 1886:


                  • #10
                    From the Pall Mall Gazette. 10th November 1888:
                    ‘IS THE MURDERER A MALAY?
                    A New Theory of the Murderer
                    NEARLY a month ago we received a long letter from Manchester setting forth a theory of the Whitechapel murders which seemed to us more ingenious and plausible than any of the others which have been ventilated in the press. The public, however, was surfeited with suggestions, and we laid the letter on one side to see if the next murder would verify our correspondent's hypothesis. This morning we received the following letter from him, which we print as an introduction to his letter of October 18, commending the whole to the attentive consideration of Scotland-yard:-
                    Sir - You will see that the theory re London murders being the work of a Malay serving in some sailing vessel sailing and returning to port for the latter end and first part of the month appears corroborated also as regards the latter part of the week, when such a man would get liberty on shore: - Friday, August 31 - Saturday, September 30, Saturday, September 8 - Friday, November 9, almost to the days. If for the previous murders he is to be held accountable we have August 7, 1888, and also April 3; the rule as to early part of month hold good. I much regret you did not think fit to publishing my letter. I was only remarking to day that if my theory was correct it was time for another murder, when the newsboy shouted out in the street. - Yours faithfully,
                    Manchester, Nov. 9, 1888.

                    Here is the letter referred to:-
                    Allow me to suggest that the solution of the London mysteries lies in the fact that you have a Malay "running a-muck" amongst s certain section of the community there.
                    First, let us consider the Malay nature as described by authorities:-
                    "The Malay race are extremely vindictive, treacherous, and ferocious, implacable in their revenge, and on the slightest provocation, or imaginary insult, will commit murder. When bent of revenge they scarcely ever fail of wreaking their vengeance.
                    Many shocking murders have been committed by Malays to gratify their thirst of revenge, which nothing but blood will satisfy, though at the certain loss of their own lives.
                    How strongly marked this revengeful spirit is, is best shown by the following: - A Malay conceiving himself injured by his master, murdered a fellow-slave. He admitted that the boy was his friend, but that he had conceived that the most effectual way of being revenged on his master was not by taking his (the master's life), but by robbing him of 1,000 rix-dollars, the value of the murdered boy, and another 1,000 by bringing himself to the gallows - the recollection of which loss would prey on his (the master's) avaricious mind for the rest of his life.
                    A Malay thinks himself wronged by society, or he is bankrupt and cannot pay his debts, or otherwise. He will be revenged; he grasps his Kris handle and stabs a man in the heart, and runs on, stabbing at everyone he meets, until the cry of alarm and warning, 'Amok, amok!' being raised, he in turn is stabbed or otherwise despatched. Hence it is called running a-muck. Which is, in fact, the Malay fashion of committing suicide. He knows that death must be his immediate lot, but he only wants to score as many victims as possible to his own steel before he is killed on the spot fighting, and not reserved for death on the gallows.
                    These vicious attributes are hereditary and apparently ineradicable.
                    Now by the light of this, and with the aid of the lucid summary of the murders in Lloyd's News of 7th October, let us try and put together a story of what might have been.
                    An English seaman who, sailor-like, fixes the date thereabouts by that of his arrival in England - namely, August 13 - states that some time subsequent to this date, he met in an East-end music-hall a Malay cook (which term cook also includes butcher, in which business than the Malay none are more dexterous and quick - he seems born to use of the knife), who tells him that he has been robbed of two years' savings by a woman of the town, and failing finding the thief he would murder and mutilate as many of the class as he could lay his hands on.
                    Here then is the wrong, and a greater one, to a Malay, than robbing him of his hard earned savings it is impossible to imagine. Anyhow subsequent to this meeting on Friday, August 31, such a woman is murdered and mutilated.
                    On Saturday, September 8, another of the same class meets an identical fate.
                    And again, Saturday-night - Sunday-morning, September 30 - October 2, two more unfortunates are murdered and one horribly mutilated.
                    Medical evidence seems to show that the murderer possessed a good deal of knowledge of the organs of the body and the way of removing them, not (as emphatically says Dr Gordon Brown) necessarily surgical knowledge, but such as would most likely be possessed by one accustomed to cutting up animals.
                    In the dextrous Malay cook and butcher, is not exactly the knowledge described accounted for? (that on one occasion knowledge approaching the surgical seemed to be shown, is accounted for by the fact that the murderer being undisturbed had
                    ample time for the operation). Now we want to know where he came from and where he disappeared to:- Observe (that numbering after interview with sailor at music hall):-
                    Murder No.1 on last day of month and Friday of week.
                    " No.2 on eight " " and Saturday of week.
                    " No.3 on last day " and Saturday of week.
                    " No.4 on last day " and Saturday of week.

                    And if we credit him with a murder committed before the music-hall interview we find -
                    Murder on 7th day of month and Tuesday of the week.
                    They are all committed at the end or early part of the month, and principally also, the latter end of the week.
                    Is this Malay serving on board some vessel engaged on short trips out of the port of London, her voyages so arranged that she was in harbour the latter end and commencement of these particular months?
                    Again, as a man so serving would be paid monthly, the time would be opportune for finding him in funds, which, more or less, would be requisite in his operations.
                    And the last days of the week and the first (the Sunday) are just the days that the cook would be able to get liberty for a run on shore.
                    Is it possible that after the murders he quietly returns to his ship? There would be nothing astonishing in the cook doing so, even early on Sunday morning, as his duties might require him on that day, and early too.
                    He might have made a change of clothes at the house where he lodges when on shore, or he might return to his ship ready dressed for work, in white jacket and trousers over his clothing, which had been at wash from the previous week, and which he picked up at his lodging - at which lodging perhaps he is in the habit of leaving a locked-up box when away at sea. If he times his murders for the last part of the vessel's stay in harbour, he shortly after proceeds to sea for a time. And in this way is not the mysterious and periodical appearance and disappearance amply accounted for?
                    As for blood stains, if any, going on board early he would have his galley all to himself to remove any such, and besides, such a stain as regards "Cook" would be paid little attention to by any one on his workaday clothes, and if on his best he could stow them away to be cleaned at leisure. What we want to find out is, a vessel or vessels (on either side of the river) whose movements will satisfy the above conditions; and next has such a one a Malay on board in any capacity? If such a vessel is now at sea, when is she expected home? Has she gone to a port in the north of the United Kingdom or Ireland, where news of the proceedings in connection with the murders can readily be obtained, or to a foreign port where information would be necessarily be more meagre?
                    Such a Malay, if existent, would probably be of Cape origin, speaking English fluently, with little to distinguish him from A European in the eyes of any one unfamiliar with the Malay race, certainly nothing to one seeing him casually by gaslight when purchasing a few grapes on a busy night, or even speaking a few words with him in a public-house. Such persons would simply describe him as a dark, &c., while the seamen well accustomed to the race would say at one, "A Malay, height, &c.; &c". (And here it may be remarked that the description in London by the fruit-seller and the seaman in America correspond wonderfully.)
                    In case of knowledge or even suspicion that such a one is afloat the key to the position is off "Gravesend," where vessels are boarded by the port and Customs authorities, the latter of whom in the ordinary course of their business would be able, without the slightest suspicion falling on them, to satisfy themselves as to the presence of such a person during the run up river; but a water policeman or other who has been a sailor, in Customs uniform in place of a Customs officer, would be the best possible arrangement - only keep the ordinary detective out of it, at any price. On board ship he would be immediately himself detected, and the whole arrangement as to securing a conviction upset.
                    In dealing with such a one, if found, it should be remembered, that a Malay wreaking his revenge cares nothing for his own life, and by nature thinks no more of taking human than animal life.
                    This man is pursuing a secret course, only with a view of making his list of victims as large as possible and not with any view to his own safety.
                    The open "running a-muck" is, as said above, the Malay way of committing suicide, and this murderer, although at present he molests none but prostitutes, if brought to bay, will simply "run a-muck" in earnest, whereas what is wanted is a conviction without further loss of life.
                    Some parts of the murdered bodies are missing. Why? Because this fiend has possessed himself of preserved some, as the Indian warrior did the scalps of his victims. They have taken the place of stolen savings, an equivalent for what he has lost. And by these he should be convicted. Detectives who have been seamen alone should be employed; the river police would supply many such. Watched (but in no way interfered with on board) by the apparent Customs officer when he goes ashore, followed by the river police (in the garb of seamen going out on liberty with money in their pockets and heads strong enough to stand a drop of drink if necessary, when he leaves the ship. When outside these jolly tars should associate themselves with him, and follow him to his lodging, which he will go to after a bit. When he has left the ship, anything he has left behind should be searched, as well as his lodging when he has left that, probably for the music-hall, which he frequents every time to endeavour to find the person who robbed him, he most likely having picked up with her at that place. After a time he will start on his night's excursion, when he should be followed and seized with the implements for fresh murders in his possessions, which together with the result of searching his belongings would be evidence enough to convict him of the capital charge. I suppose it has not struck the police to secure the attendance of the seaman from America, or to ascertain by means of promise of pardon or reward if a man of the said description has been known to be robbed of such a sum of money. This would be too much to expect from them, although to have done both would have been as valuable as anything they seem to have done at present.’


                    • #11
                      Absoltely, A.P.....these people absolutely look European...

                      (...sorry...that's "Absolutely"...)

             me; they would have blended in with the British folks in the East End...totally... (NOT!!)

                      (Rumored to be Jack the Ripper...)

                      {"See what a jolly bonnet I have now"...

                      (LeGrand's ladies out for some fresh air...)

                      (Mary Kelly in Paris...)

                      (Mary Kelly and friends...)

                      (Queen Victoria & Prince Albert)

                      (The Baker Street Irregulars)

                      A.P. - seriously, saying that these folks look European, would be like saying that I look Scandinavian! It was enough that everyone was saying that JtR looked Jewish, or "foreign" (implying being "out of place" ot a certain degree); you don't think someone who was Malaysian would not have been described as being "out of place" as well? Certainly if JtR were Malaysian, I think he would have been caught a lot quicker, as the suspect list would have narrowed quite a bit!

                      Also, the term "Jap" (as in your phrase "enraged Jap" ) is quite offensive, don't you think...


                      • #12
                        I wonder whether the good poster knows what race I am?
                        And that I was quoting a gentleman living in 1888 who obviously had a wide and experienced knowledge of the Malay race?

                        Looking at the 1885 Austin murders and then the 1888 Whitechapel murders with the thought that a Malay cook might have been involved, I am struck by a number of things.
                        That the Austin killer appeared to carry out his crimes in bare feet – once leaving bloody footprints all over the floor of a house as he carried his victim outside – would of course make him a very silent killer; and of course Malays commonly went bare footed in the days of Empire.
                        Maurice – as the Malay cook was apparently named, although I believe this may refer to the fact that he was a Malay who had spent part of his life in Maurice – worked at the ‘Pearl House Hotel’ in Austin which in fact was a ‘house of ill repute’, in other words a brothel; and that one of his last two victims, although a woman of wealth and position in Austin, was alleged to have prostituted herself on occasion.
                        Then there is the quirky but deadly habit the Austin killer had of penetrating the victim’s heads through to the brain – often through the ear but not always – with a thin and sharp metal instrument.
                        Malays practice a strange ritual known as ‘Chalifa’ involving the skillful use of swords, knives and other sharp metal instruments in which they actually stab themselves; and if one combines this with the other ritualized and mystical ‘Silat’ – a very ancient Malayan form of martial arts – which combined unarmed combat and extreme and deadly deftness with all manner of bladed weapons like the ‘Kali’ or the ‘Keri.
                        Blades which are believed to have souls, and then to store the souls of victims killed by the blade, and the more people that are slaughtered then the more potent and valuable the blade becomes.
                        In ‘Silat’ there are two methods of execution, one is to thrust a very narrow and thin blade through the back straight into the heart of the victim, the other is to use a ‘sarong’ to snare a person’s head, wrapping it tight around the head, covering the eyes, and then tripping the victim off their feet to the ground and slitting their throat in an instant.
                        Now what does that remind me of?


                        • #13
                          Dear Cappuccina:

                          Certainly if JtR were Malaysian, I think he would have been caught a lot quicker, as the suspect list would have narrowed quite a bit!

                          No one can be sure if the Ripper was ever seen by any of the people described as witnesses...from Mrs.Long to Hutchinson ...despite the very likely possibility Mrs.Long did see him with Chapman ( in my opinion only...). Thats why I asked A.P. if he might know whether White prostitutes would engage in prostitution ( street level to be more precise ) in the East End with men of color.

                          If they would... and then taking the possibility that the Ripper may not have been seen...who knows?

                          We might want to remember that none of the suspects that are on that proverbial list you mentioned have anything other than suspicion attached to their resume.
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                          • #14
                            I know what it reminds me of now.
                            The unsolved murder of Mary Ann Yates, an unfortunate, in March of 1884 in Burton Crescent.
                            She was found with a 'towel' tightly wrapped around her head, covering her eyes, and had her throat slit.

                            From an unoffended Brit.
                            To a Yank
                            Via an Aussie and Kiwi
                            and a Jap
                            who say people who hug tree too much get twigs in hair.


                            • #15
                              Hi A.P., I beleive you are of Indian descent...

                              ...Here's the deal...

                              First of all, How B., with all due respect, I don't agree with you...I think he was seen, and was decribed as a 30-something Jewish looking local person, dressed in a "shabby genteel" manner...

                              My point was that if people were into looking for ethnic differences such that they described this man as "Jewish" or "foreign" in appearance, certainly, they would have pointed out characteristics of a Malaysian person as well, since that person's presence would have been somewhat more unusual in the area...

                              A.P., you said (I added the underlining for emphasis): "Malays practice a strange ritual known as ‘Chalifa’ involving the skillful use of swords, knives and other sharp metal instruments in which they actually stab themselves; and if one combines this with the other ritualized and mystical ‘Silat’ – a very ancient Malayan form of martial arts – which combined unarmed combat and extreme and deadly deftness with all manner of bladed weapons like the ‘Kali’ or the ‘Keri.

                              Blades which are believed to have souls, and then to store the souls of victims killed by the blade, and the more people that are slaughtered then the more potent and valuable the blade becomes..."

                              Ummmm, don't you think these people would be absolutely MORTIFIED or EMBARASSED to have their "work" compared to the sloppy hackings of Jack the Ripper? You did say they have a "skillful use of swords, etc.", did you not? I do not think they would have characterized Jack as "skillful" or "deft" in any sense of the word...While you could characterize Jack as being quick and fairly strong, he did not have the "deadly deftness" you refer to at all...He would have been the "Mr. Bean" of the Silat world, I think...