Thomas Fogarty

[Gary Barnett]

Thanks, Gary. I don't remember this but know you will be correct.
I remember that the baker born St George's who deserted was too short to be Foggy anyway? So, if there was another soldier who was the same age and resided in London and was a tailor, that would tie up the two records as we know Foggy was definitely an ex soldier who was discharged in 1887 according to the SGITE settlement record.

But then the boy who stole the 'duplicate' in '71 was a baker and only 5' 4". Perhaps that was his height on enlistment in his teens and he grew a few inches while serving for Queen and country?

The Poona deserter is not perfect either. His age is out by 3 years and there is no mention of London.

This is his prison record:

4/1/82 - GCM Poona*
4/5/82 - Portsmouth (from Military)
17/5/82 - Millbank
23/8/82 - Chatham
10/3/85 - Remission of sentence


*General Court Martial.
Escaping from confinement and desertion.
Soldier 23rd R.A.

image.jpeg

I wonder what the red stars signify and what is meant by 'transferred to ordinary'.

[Gary Barnett]

Foggy appears on the 1901 census in Wandsworth Prison.

The age looks like 65, which is wrong it should be 48, but the other details are spot on:

Thomas Fogarty
Widower
Hawker of Laces
Born Stepney
Blind

[Gary Barnett]

Foggy appears on the 1901 census in Wandsworth Prison.

The age looks like 65, which is wrong it should be 48, but the other details are spot on:

Thomas Fogarty
Widower
Hawker of Laces
Born Stepney
Blind

You'll remember that the blind man who attacked his female guide near Spitalfields Market was a seller of lace(s). He was described as having an 'ungovernable temper'. It strikes me that a man who repeatedly stabs a woman in broad daylight in Spitalfields in the middle of the Ripper scare must have had mental health issues.

[Gary Barnett]

Fogarty's Claybury record originally stated that he was chargeable to Wandsworth - but that was crossed out and replaced by St Geo E. Could that mean he had been committed from prison?

[Gary Barnett]

You'll remember that the blind man who attacked his female guide near Spitalfields Market was a seller of lace(s). He was described as having an 'ungovernable temper'. It strikes me that a man who repeatedly stabs a woman in broad daylight in Spitalfields in the middle of the Ripper scare must have had mental health issues.

Without finding a post-1888 criminal record for Foggy, we won't be able to prove he was the Spitalfields attacker, but the laces clue is very suggestive.

How many vicious, clearly mentally unstable, blind sellers of laces were there in the East End?

I'm spending much of my time in Dorset these days and trips to the LMA aren't really possible. When I next get back to London, I'll pay a visit and have a longer trawl through the Wandsworth registers to see if I can find anything more on Fogarty.

[Debra Arif]

Interesting stuff, Gary.
Will read it properly later today.

[Gary Barnett]

Interesting stuff, Gary.
Will read it properly later today.

Thanks, Debs.

The inaccurate age and the Wandsworth location is why I didn't spot it before.

[Gary Barnett]

There is a convenient gap in Fogarty's workhouse records between 12/3/01 and 17/4/01 which could be explained by a short break in Wandsworth. A month for 'Drunk &c' perhaps?.

His admission address on 17/4/01 was 106, St. George Street.

[Robert Linford]

There isn't even a 106 St George St in the 1901 census.

[Gary Barnett]

There isn't even a 106 St George St in the 1901 census.

That's odd. There are two other men on the same page who were admitted from the same address.

[Gary Barnett]

106 -7, St. George Street was the St George's Chambers lodging house, run by the Oylers.

A very respectable establishment, apparently. I wonder if those released from Wandsworth, or elsewhere, were given a chit for a few nights lodging at a decent establishment in their local area to enable them to find their feet? Quite a few of the 1901 admissions to the Raine Street workhouse came from there.

About the best sample of this kind of establishment extant will be found at St. George's chambers, St. George's-street, London-docks (vulgo, Ratcliff-highway), a thorough poor man's hotel where a comfortable bed with use of sitting-room, cooking apparatus and fire, and laundry accommodation, soap included, can be had for 4d. a night, all kinds of provisions being obtainable in the bar at proportionate rates. To any one interested in the condition of the London poor, this establishment is well worth a journey to the East-end to visit.

From Charles Dickens Jnr's Dictionary of London, 1879

[Gary Barnett]

I wonder if Foggy took advantage of the soap on offer at the Oylers'?

A note on one of his Raine Street admissions says 'refused to be cleansed'.

[Robert Linford]

Not sure if Foggy could find his feet if he was blind.

[Jon Simons]

106 -7, St. George Street was the St George's Chambers lodging house, run by the Oylers.

A very respectable establishment, apparently. I wonder if those released from Wandsworth, or elsewhere, were given a chit for a few nights lodging at a decent establishment in their local area to enable them to find their feet? Quite a few of the 1901 admissions to the Raine Street workhouse came from there.

About the best sample of this kind of establishment extant will be found at St. George's chambers, St. George's-street, London-docks (vulgo, Ratcliff-highway), a thorough poor man's hotel where a comfortable bed with use of sitting-room, cooking apparatus and fire, and laundry accommodation, soap included, can be had for 4d. a night, all kinds of provisions being obtainable in the bar at proportionate rates. To any one interested in the condition of the London poor, this establishment is well worth a journey to the East-end to visit.

From Charles Dickens Jnr's Dictionary of London, 1879

The Oylers (bakers, apparently) also ran
Edinburgh Chambers 9-10 Dorset Street
St James Chambers Poplar High St

[Gary Barnett]

The Oylers (bakers, apparently) also ran
Edinburgh Chambers 9-10 Dorset Street
St James Chambers Poplar High St

Thanks, Jon.

I seem to remember we discussed the Oylers on here a little while back.