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  • It’s not entirely out of the realm of possibilities that Tabrams attacker could have had such a disability.
    -JMenges-
    ....which might explain the high number of stab wounds. A sight-disabled or a person with limited vision might feel they have to stab their victim that many times...to make sure the deed was done.
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    • Originally posted by JMenges View Post
      The Spitalfields Market attack at least does show what someone that blind is still capable of. Several stab wounds to the neck... Luck? Good aim? A stout woman and so a larger target? Did he grab her from behind so he could quickly feel for where exactly he intended to stab her? It’s not entirely out of the realm of possibilities that Tabrams attacker could have had such a disability. It’s still unlikely IMO, but if true, I do think he might have required an accomplice on the scene to help him get away.

      JM

      Jon,

      The wound to Tabram’s head allows for the possibility that, like the Spitalfields victim, she was first ‘felled to the floor’ by a blow of some kind. Once she’s knocked out, or semi so, a lone blind man carrying more than one bladed tool could have done the stabbing without assistance.

      A frenzied attack initially, perhaps, and then a final coup de grace, guided by touch having ripped open Martha’s jacket, in the precise location where British army bayonet training might have suggested was the ideal spot.

      I need to check whether Royal Artillerymen received bayonet training and whether the ‘go for the sternum’ advice was given in the 1870s/80s.

      You may notice that while espousing my ‘theory’ I’m not stating or implying as facts things I’m not certain about. I really hate that.

      Gary

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      • Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
        It’s not entirely out of the realm of possibilities that Tabrams attacker could have had such a disability.
        -JMenges-
        ....which might explain the high number of stab wounds. A sight-disabled or a person with limited vision might feel they have to stab their victim that many times...to make sure the deed was done.
        Was his initial intention to extinguish her life? I’m not sure that he necessarily intellectualised his actions until he realised that he had a likely, but not certain, murder victim on his hands. That’s perhaps why he changed weapons and opened Martha’s clothes to administer the fatal wound. A single, well-placed wound that suggests he may well have known that a ‘long, strong’ weapon thrust through the sternum into the heart would prove fatal.

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        • Originally posted by JMenges View Post
          The Spitalfields Market attack at least does show what someone that blind is still capable of. Several stab wounds to the neck... Luck? Good aim? A stout woman and so a larger target? Did he grab her from behind so he could quickly feel for where exactly he intended to stab her? It’s not entirely out of the realm of possibilities that Tabrams attacker could have had such a disability. It’s still unlikely IMO, but if true, I do think he might have required an accomplice on the scene to help him get away.

          JM
          Jon,

          Can I pick you up on your ‘unlikely’?

          Why?

          Statistically? Practically?

          If you had heard of the Spitalfields attack, but hadn’t heard that the assailant was blind, would you say it was unlikely that he was?

          Gary

          Comment


          • This is probably just IPN artistic licence, but we don’t actually know at what point in the attack, or why, Tabram’s jacket was pulled open.

            E81507F3-CA5B-4006-B42B-214BA7AC076D.jpeg

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            • I'm not sure a blind assailant would have too much difficulty getting far enough from the crime to be undetected. If he could make it to the streets where revelry was or had been ongoing, no one may have noticed and even if he was seen, who would suspect a blind man? Of course, IF a blind man did the murder.
              The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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              • I wonder how many other blind killers there have been... not partially sighted, blind.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Edward Stow View Post
                  I wonder how many other blind killers there have been... not partially sighted, blind.
                  What is it with you and this ‘partially-sighted’ malarky? I don’t get what relevance the degree of Fogarty’s blindness might have to his being Tabram’s killer.

                  Please enlighten us.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                    Jon,

                    If you had heard of the Spitalfields attack, but hadn’t heard that the assailant was blind, would you say it was unlikely that he was?

                    Gary

                    Its more about what we know of the victim and assailants relationship in the market attack that reduces the relevance of the attacker being blind. They were acquaintances. Maybe even 'friends' in some way since she seemed to regularly lead him along. To me this sounds closer what we'd consider a domestic assault. Men of all shapes, sizes, abilities and disabilities attack their wives, neighbors, mothers, baby sitters, real estate agents, employees and co-workers. So in that circumstance, the attacker also being blind is a curiosity, but ultimately unimportant. Was it an impressive attack for a blind man to pull off? Yes it was. And he was swiftly captured.

                    I see the Tabram murder as one perpetrated by a prostitute killer. With all the hallmarks of what we see in the later victims of the Whitechapel murders and frankly what we see with prostitute murders up to the present day i.e. their occupations, the targeting of the genitalia and posing of the bodies. I believe, statistically, this type of murder is far more likely to be committed by a sighted individual rather than a blind one.



                    JM

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                    • Originally posted by JMenges View Post
                      Its more about what we know of the victim and assailants relationship in the market attack that reduces the relevance of the attacker being blind. They were acquaintances. Maybe even 'friends' in some way since she seemed to regularly lead him along. To me this sounds closer what we'd consider a domestic assault. Men of all shapes, sizes, abilities and disabilities attack their wives, neighbors, mothers, baby sitters, real estate agents, employees and co-workers. So in that circumstance, the attacker also being blind is a curiosity, but ultimately unimportant. Was it an impressive attack for a blind man to pull off? Yes it was. And he was swiftly captured.

                      I see the Tabram murder as one perpetrated by a prostitute killer. With all the hallmarks of what we see in the later victims of the Whitechapel murders and frankly what we see with prostitute murders up to the present day i.e. their occupations, the targeting of the genitalia and posing of the bodies. I believe, statistically, this type of murder is far more likely to be committed by a sighted individual rather than a blind one.



                      JM
                      That’s very interesting, Jon.

                      What are the ‘hallmarks’ that would distinguish Martha’s attack from the Spitalfields one?

                      If, and it is still an if, Fogarty was the Spitalfields attacker, what class of woman do you think he would have had leading him about the streets?

                      Fast forward a few years and he’s shacked up in a house in NE passage with Pearly Poll (a prostitute for much of her adult life) and there are two other prostitutes recorded at the same address.

                      I know it may be a strange concept for those steeped in the black and white of Ripperology, but what if the Spitalfields and GYB attacks were both prostitute and domestic attacks?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                        That’s very interesting, Jon.

                        If, and it is still an if, Fogarty was the Spitalfields attacker, what class of woman do you think he would have had leading him about the streets?

                        Stop me when I'm sounding too much like Hallie Rubenhold, but it doesn't appear as though she was working as a prostitute at the time she was attacked.



                        I know it may be a strange concept for those steeped in the black and white of Ripperology, but what if the Spitalfields and GYB attacks were both prostitute and domestic attacks?
                        I considered that and concluded that Pearly Poll likely would have had to direct the attack on Tabram or assist in some way with his escape. I just can't yet bring myself to believe the Ripper had an accomplice 'Jill the Ripper'. So perhaps I'm blind myself by still viewing Tabram's murder as a part of a series.


                        JM

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                        • Originally posted by JMenges View Post
                          Stop me when I'm sounding too much like Hallie Rubenhold, but it doesn't appear as though she was working as a prostitute at the time she was attacked.




                          I considered that and concluded that Pearly Poll likely would have had to direct the attack on Tabram or assist in some way with his escape. I just can't yet bring myself to believe the Ripper had an accomplice 'Jill the Ripper'. So perhaps I'm blind myself by still viewing Tabram's murder as a part of a series.


                          JM
                          Jon,

                          Do you think the Spitalfields couple were just ‘acquaintances’?

                          I’ve no idea what their relationship was, but my guess would be that someone prepared to lead such a violent nutter about the streets of Spitalfields wasn’t far off the PP or Martha mould.

                          Gary

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                          • Jill the Ripper’s not what I have in mind, though it’s possible that Poll was present when the murder occurred.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                              Jon,

                              Do you think the Spitalfields couple were just ‘acquaintances’?

                              I’ve no idea what their relationship was, but my guess would be that someone prepared to lead such a violent nutter about the streets of Spitalfields wasn’t far off the PP or Martha mould.

                              Gary
                              Yes I agree that the two of them were acquaintances, or more.
                              Which is why I said it might be more of an acquaintance/domestic attack as opposed to being an attempted lust murder, as I believe the murder of Tabram was.

                              JM

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by JMenges View Post
                                Yes I agree that the two of them were acquaintances, or more.
                                Which is why I said it might be more of an acquaintance/domestic attack as opposed to being an attempted lust murder, as I believe the murder of Tabram was.

                                JM
                                Why do you think Tabram’s was an attempted lust murder? She had stab wounds all over her torso and a single slash on the ‘lower part’ of her body.

                                Surely only a blind man would confuse a woman’s throat with her nether regions.

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