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Antecedents of Grainger & Sadler

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  • Antecedents of Grainger & Sadler

    Both men had their backgrounds investigated relative to their whereabouts in Autumn 1888.


    Grainger

    *******
    Pall Mall Gazette
    May 7, 1895
    Henry Cust, editor
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Cust )




    ************************************************** *********************
    Sadler

    St. James Gazette
    February 18, 1891
    ****************




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  • #2
    St. James Gazette
    February 19, 1891
    ****************



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    • #3
      It's absolutely amazing that a man like Grainger who divided his time between work house and militia, was unaccounted for during every, single murder! The answer may be very simple, like he was picking hops during the autumn of terror or maybe he went to sea. But we don't know. These kinds of coincidences can lead to faulty conclusions. Or maybe he was JtR.
      The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
        It's absolutely amazing that a man like Grainger who divided his time between work house and militia, was unaccounted for during every, single murder! The answer may be very simple, like he was picking hops during the autumn of terror or maybe he went to sea. But we don't know. These kinds of coincidences can lead to faulty conclusions. Or maybe he was JtR.
        He also spent an awful lot of time in the Cork Police Courts charged with drunkenness and of all the documented occurrences of this, not one of those dates coincides with the murder dates either.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
          He also spent an awful lot of time in the Cork Police Courts charged with drunkenness and of all the documented occurrences of this, not one of those dates coincides with the murder dates either.
          It would make sense that Grainger stayed on in Ireland after finishing his militia service in the summer of 1888. On the other hand it would make sense he took his militia pay and headed to London.

          Hmmmm.....a regular in the police courts, etc. and he was sober and employed from mid-July 1888 through November 1888? Curious. Maybe he joined the Salvation Army for a few months.
          The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
            It would make sense that Grainger stayed on in Ireland after finishing his militia service in the summer of 1888. On the other hand it would make sense he took his militia pay and headed to London.

            Hmmmm.....a regular in the police courts, etc. and he was sober and employed from mid-July 1888 through November 1888? Curious. Maybe he joined the Salvation Army for a few months.
            His only 1888 Cork court appearance was April 19th and he got 4 days or a fine, his release is listed as 22nd, so he must have taken the imprisonment option. In other years he appears at least once. In 1887 he was convicted for assault and paid his fine.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
              His only 1888 Cork court appearance was April 19th and he got 4 days or a fine, his release is listed as 22nd, so he must have taken the imprisonment option. In other years he appears at least once. In 1887 he was convicted for assault and paid his fine.
              I just did a quick search on Grainger's activities. I have heard the name but didn't know much about him.

              If he was Jack, by 1895 he had forgotten a hallmark of the 1888 murders, making sure the women died silently before he attacked abdomens.

              Isn't 10 years penal servitude a lot of time for Grainger's attack on Alice Graham? There are lots of worse cases in the Old Bailey and less time was given. I can see Grainger had an extensive bad background and was kicked out of the militia but would that cause such a long sentence?

              I have that theory that authorities, one way or another, neutralized or accounted for any POSSIBLE JtR. Since Grainger couldn't be sectioned for life, hanged or transported, was 10 years the maximum way to remove him from society for a long time?
              The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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              • #8
                Debs:

                Hope I'm not putting you on the spot here...but does Grainger still have a place in your list of potential Rippers ? I haven't given up on that possibility, although someone may have found something I haven't seen to cover his whereabouts during the latter part of 1888.
                XXXXXXXX
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
                  Debs:

                  Hope I'm not putting you on the spot here...but does Grainger still have a place in your list of potential Rippers ? I haven't given up on that possibility, although someone may have found something I haven't seen to cover his whereabouts during the latter part of 1888.
                  XXXXXXXX
                  How, Grainger's always been interesting to me from the point of view that he entered prison labelled as JTR by the press mainly because of the mystery surrounding his court case, caused by the fact that he stabbed a woman who survived the attack, in the vagina (as found by Rob Clack) He was used by Kebble, the defence lawyer who abandoned him before his Old Bailey trial, to counter Robert Andersons's claims that the Ripper was a Polish Jew and also by Winslow to discredit Kebble and bolster his own theory on the murderer. Winslow gained the reputation of becoming ridiculous in his theories on the ripper and that seems to be a fair judgement. There's also the suggestion Grainger was ID'd by a witness who saw JTR and that's interesting in itself because it can't have been the same witness who Id'd the Polish Jew suspect, supposedly the only person who ever saw JTR, but wouldn't swear to him as that would rule out any future use of that witness in itself.
                  All I would say is that despite knowing Grainger's whereabouts on specific dates, no one picked up on his court cases and funnily enough even though Grainger's whereabouts is know definitely for a lot of the time in 1888, he was not located at the time of the murders. We know Grainger lied about never being in England before the attack on Alice Graham because he was in fact in Banstead asylum in 1891.

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                  • #10
                    Grainger was in and out of Fulham workhouse and went from there to Banstead asylum, so he was apparently in England for a while before attacking Alice Graham.
                    The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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                    • #11
                      Thanks Anna....much appreciated !

                      I agree, Debs. He's also a man who was arrested and convicted for a violent assault on a prostitute... most notably for an assault to the vaginal area. That sort of assault takes a man to a whole other level, in my view.

                      Thanks for the reply....
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
                        Thanks Anna....much appreciated !

                        I agree, Debs. He's also a man who was arrested and convicted for a violent assault on a prostitute... most notably for an assault to the vaginal area. That sort of assault takes a man to a whole other level, in my view.

                        Thanks for the reply....
                        Thanks How. Yes, Grainger stabbed Alice Graham in the vagina.., and while she was laid on the ground. I read lots of interesting posts that say this is one aspect that made JTR unique, an attack on the genitals. If so, when did this part of the attack happen? The beginning or the end?

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                        • #13
                          Debs:

                          If there was ONE document or court transcription or missing file or anything case related that I'd wish to see....it would be the Grainger court trial in 1895. I would really like to hear more about what he did.
                          Unfortunately, the powers-that-be saw to it that we won't.
                          XXX
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
                            Debs:

                            If there was ONE document or court transcription or missing file or anything case related that I'd wish to see....it would be the Grainger court trial in 1895. I would really like to hear more about what he did.
                            Unfortunately, the powers-that-be saw to it that we won't.
                            XXX
                            Quite rightly though, How. Alice Graham survived a horrific attack and they gave her the dignity of not having the details on the record or sensationalised in the press. That's another interesting fact, that the press were asked not to report the details and the OB did not transcribe proceedings either.

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                            • #15
                              Absolutely, Debs....it was only right that Alice Graham not have to attend.

                              I do wish that the police, who had looked into Grainger's background in the first place, had followed up with a report which existed for us to peruse.
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