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  • A Royal Theory

    https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/28e5b...5848b243f7.pdf

    Any opinions ?
    To Join JTR Forums :
    Contact Howard@jtrforums.com

  • #2
    William Gull was not Jack the Ripper in 1888 and Richard Jewell did not detonate the bomb at Centennial Olympic Park in 1996.

    It's too bad these two innocent men had to be subjected to a public scrutiny.

    It's ok to research into these cases in the hope of finding out how these odd theories were conceived, but don't overwork yourselves while doing it. Those theories and suspicions eventually fell apart on their own anyway.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
      This is our old mate 'San Fran', isn't it?

      Comment


      • #4
        Gary

        Yes sir...sho' nuff is.
        To Join JTR Forums :
        Contact Howard@jtrforums.com

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        • #5
          Not being privy to any of the actual DNA result comparisons evidence with specific names and dates means we aren't really able to see for ourselves if the conclusions being made from them make sense . For example the initial claims about 'Stewart' DNA in the descendants of Mary Jane Wilson nee Kelly: Is the Stewart Royal line DNA match pinpointed to time period that makes it significant?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Debra Arif View Post
            Not being privy to any of the actual DNA result comparisons evidence with specific names and dates means we aren't really able to see for ourselves if the conclusions being made from them make sense . For example the initial claims about 'Stewart' DNA in the descendants of Mary Jane Wilson nee Kelly: Is the Stewart Royal line DNA match pinpointed to time period that makes it significant?
            The Stewart bloodline connection for Mary Jane Wilson is interesting but not highly relevant...It's the biggest stretch assumption-wise with the Wilson family you found in the census.

            According to Ancestry Family Trees, they married into the direct Stewart line three generations later (Robert Wilson's sister's line). With MJW's mother being a Delahoyde/Delahedi/Delahay?, there's evidence she was landed gentry from Scotland from a clan with known ties and marriages to the Stewarts.

            Her son also married into Carnarvon servants and they think the wife was another alleged illegitimate of the 4th Earl. The granddaughter's DNA cousin match pedigree names turned up at least 9 Tudors last time I checked. I have none. That doesn't make great grandmother MJW a Tudor though. That would be a total fabrication.

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            • #7
              I will read the whole thing later and don't want to say something too ignorant, but the Royal Stewart bloodline seems to be the plot of a number of tales. Yet the present royal family was largely Hanoverian and didn't the royal branch of Stewarts die off in the 1700's?

              This kind of brings to mind a show by Tony Robinson about an alternative bloodline if we accept that Edward IV was illegitimate or something. The "true" king of England is a fellow who lives in Australia and votes republican. (I kind of got lost in this reasoning, if Richard III was the rightful king or if the theory counted his death at the hands of the undeserving Henry VII whose Tudor dynasty only lasted three generations.)
              The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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              • #8
                Thanks, Anna. What we know is that a mystery orphan whose mother was a Mary Jane Kelly, equally mysterious, married a Carnarvon/Teck servant in 1919. That's a Liverpool family one generation in London or none depending on who you believe. That much we know for a fact.

                However, I no longer believe this to be the source of the Stowell story which doesn't have the royal baby in it. Spiro Dimolianis went deeper than Stewart Evans but didn't get a definitive source because of Stowell's different stories. I'll be removing the document as it wasn't meant for mainstream perusal. Not ready for Prime Time Players.

                P.S. The baby story came from Knight who got it from Gorman. I guess it's possible that the baby story came from the Carnarvons to Joseph Sickert if you believe Gorman got it from Sickert. There's a range of possibilities. Obviously something the appeals to the masses.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi San Fran

                  Reading the attachment you posted reminded me of something Iread years ago in Stewart Evans excellent “On the Origins of the Royal Conspiracy”

                  "In England it is to Sir HaroldNicolson, for allowing me to
                  delve into his works and for telling me a number of
                  hitherto unpublished anecdotes, that I am most
                  indebted."

                  Now Harold Nicolson certainly new something about a RoyalConspiracy as early as 1949, he got this anecdote from a Lord Chief Justice whoI presume must have known of it some years earlier.

                  To explain this further I have attached a research note thatI made at the time:


                  HAROLD NICOLSON – CLEVELAND STREET COVER UP


                  In his book “Prince Eddy and the Homosexual Underworld”author Theo Aronson says:
                  “That there had been a conspiracy instigated at the highestlevels, there can be very little doubt. Sixty years later, when the writer andpolitician Harold Nicolson was working on his official life of Prince Eddy’sbrother, King George V, he was told by the Lord Chief Justice, Lord Goddard,that Prince Eddy ‘had been involved in a male brothel scene, and that asolicitor had to commit perjury to clear him’. And while researching in theRoyal Archives, Nicolson made a note in his private diary to the effect thatthere seems to have been a skilful cover up of the scandal ‘to save the name ofthe Royal Family”

                  Aronson acknowledges that the information from Lord Goddardis taken from “Harold Nicolson aBiography Volume 2” by James Lees-Milne. [Page 231]; and that Nicolsonmaking a note in his private diary is taken from “Hugh Dalton” by Ben Pimlott.

                  A source note in Pimlott’s “Hugh Dalton” appears to suggest that there are private unpublisheddiaries of Harold Nicolson at Balliol College, Oxford, and reference is alsomade to a particular date – 16th. February 1949 and this is the timewhen Nicolson was researching and writing his biography of King George V.

                  Harold Nicolson’s diaries have been published in threevolumes edited by his son Nigel and I have been unable to find an exactreference in these, therefore presume that whatever Harold Nicolson knew mustbe in his private diaries at Balliol.

                  John Savage
                  Hull 14th. October 2010

                  I hope you find this of interest.

                  Rgds

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                  • #10
                    Yes, that's interesting because Stewart Evans has the source as Stowell who gave it to Colin Wilson who gave it to Nicholson who gave it to Jullien.

                    But if Nicholson had it in 1949, it can't be from Wilson who was born in 1931, even if Wilson was a genius.

                    It would be of further interest to find out who the Lord Chief Justice is supposed to be who also was said to have given it to Nicholson.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi San Fran


                      As mentioned in my previous post, the Lord Chief Justice was Lord Goddard [1877-1971].


                      More info on him here:


                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayner..._Baron_Goddard


                      Rgds
                      John

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks, John. A lot of people must have known about the Cleveland street scandal and the rumours. We now know that prostitutes did try to blackmail the prince, a revelation that came out sometime last century. The Ripper connection to the Prince came from Stowell although he didn’t name the Prince. Stowell was a royalist and then said it was someone else perhaps on the Prince’s behalf, else why mention sourcing Gull’s medical records. Maybe that stoked baby rumours because why would Gull do it only out of revenge for syphillus. Gorman we know had the first major royal bastard conspiracy and we don’t know for sure if he made it up as he said in the end. Like relying on Michael Barrett!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I can't find a link to the extortion letters to Albert Victor by a pair of prostitutes. One site said it might have been a modern hoax but I remember it being treated as factual. Doesn't anyone else remember them?

                          There was at least one illegitimate claimant for an Albert Victor heir in the 1920s so that could have fueled a Ripper royal baby theory once you have Albert in the picture frame.

                          Albert Victor met Mrs. Margery Haddon, the wife of a civil engineer, Henry Haddon. After several failed marriages and Albert Victor's death, Margery came to England and claimed the Prince was the father of her son, Clarence Haddon. There was no evidence and her claims were dismissed. She had become an alcoholic and seemed deranged. The allegations were reported to Buckingham Palace and the head of the police Special Branch investigated. Papers in the National Archives show that neither courtiers nor Margery had any proof of the allegation. In a statement to police Albert Victor's lawyers admitted that there had been "some relations" between him and Mrs. Haddon, but denied the claim of fatherhood.

                          However, in the 1920s, the son, Clarence, repeated the story and published a book in the United States, My Uncle George V, in which he claimed he was born in London in September 1890, about nine months after Albert Victor's meeting with Mrs. Haddon. In 1933, he was charged with demanding money with menace and attempted extortion after writing to the King asking for hush money.
                          http://theesotericcuriosa.blogspot.c...-of-great.html

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                          • #14
                            I found a link with the blackmail info. The blackmail letters from to prostitutes blackmailing PAV were sold at auction in 2002. “Thought to be forgeries” based on some spelling and dates but could still be legitimate.

                            http://theesotericcuriosa.blogspot.c...great.html?m=1

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi San Fran.

                              The claims of Clarence Gordon Haddon have been discussedbefore, either here or on Casebook. However the link you have given is a faresummary of the matter.

                              The blackmail letters sold at auction were purchased byPatricia Cornwell and used in her book “JTR Case Closed. The letters arementioned in the book.

                              The letters are from PAV to solicitor George Lewis, a wellrespected man and friend and solicitor of the Prince of Wales. It is said that hewas responsible for resolving many matters related to the seamy side ofVictorian high society.

                              Claims that these letters are forgeries were made byauthor and historian Andrew Cook in his book “Prince Eddy – The King BritainNever Had”

                              The letters are further discussed in the article “Takenas Magnificent – The Lydia Manton Affair” by Robert Linford David O’Flahertyand John Savage [Ripperologist 129 December 2012]. Here we suggest the likely identitiesof the two ladies involved.

                              Hope this helps.

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