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David Orsam’s ‘New JTR Suspect Identified!’

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  • David Orsam’s ‘New JTR Suspect Identified!’

    From DO’s blog:

    http://www.orsam.co.uk/somethoughts.htm

    Quite an intriguing possibility.

    A few points to note:

    The ‘real’ name of the man in question appears to have been Denis O’Brien rather than Joseph McCarthy. At least that was the name under which he was convicted for ‘uttering’ in 1894, the names Joseph McCarthy and Michael Sheen then both being recorded as aliases.

    I haven’t been able to locate the habitual criminals record Orsam refers to, but presumably the George Yard address it gives was O’Brien’s ‘intended address’ on liberation in 1892/3 rather than his address at the time of his 1888 conviction. O’Brien, said at the time to have been of no fixed address, was arrested with the stolen cloth in Islington, so there doesn’t appear to be any evidence that he was resident in Whitechapel in 1888.

    Orsam tells us there is no evidence of violence in ‘McCarthy’s’ criminal record. But the habitual criminals register apparently records ‘flogging marks’ on his back. He hadn’t received those as part of his 1887 conviction for coining, so when had he? Might there be another alias we have yet to unearth?

  • #2
    DO tells us that ‘McCarthy’ was convicted of being ‘in possession of counterfeit coin’. In fact, O’Brien was convicted of ‘uttering counterfeit coin’ i.e. passing them off as genuine and (possibly) having other counterfeit coins in his possession.

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    • #3
      O’Brien was released early on license from the 5 year sentence he received in 1888. Whether he ever turned up at the George Yard address he provided is unclear, but he was rearrested for ‘failing to report’ and his licence was revoked at Bow Street in July, 1893, so possibly he gave the East End a miss after his release.

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      • #4
        Wouldn't another source of "flogging marks" be from military service, notably the navy?
        The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
          Wouldn't another source of "flogging marks" be from military service, notably the navy?
          Possibly, Anna. DO describes ‘McCarthy’ as a labourer, but some records show him as a ship’s fireman. He’s quite young when his criminal record starts, early twenties it seems.

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          • #6
            I wish David Orsam's blog were easier to read. There's a large amount of interesting content, but unfortunately it's all squashed into a narrow strip running down the middle of the page. It's like trying to read a copy of Ulysses printed on ticker-tape.
            Kind regards, Sam Flynn

            "Suche Nullen"
            (F. Nietzsche)

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            • #7
              DO says the date of the 1888 OB trial was 12th Jan, which is what appears on the court calendar, but elsewhere the date is 10th Jan. I wonder which is correct.

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              • #8
                https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/brow...-173#highlight


                https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/brow...-542#highlight

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                • #9
                  He may have been the JM in the jug at Portsea in 1891.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                    I wish David Orsam's blog were easier to read. There's a large amount of interesting content, but unfortunately it's all squashed into a narrow strip running down the middle of the page. It's like trying to read a copy of Ulysses printed on ticker-tape.
                    At least Joyce didnt put his links in sone kind of illegible flourescent blue font on a dark background.

                    Its easier to the point of Finnegans Wake than it is to see blue text on that background.

                    P

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
                      He may have been the JM in the jug at Portsea in 1891.
                      Thanks, Rob.

                      POB?

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                      • #12
                        Single, age 27, general labourer with '25' pencilled in, POB London.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
                          Single, age 27, general labourer with '25' pencilled in, POB London.
                          Thanks, Rob. Pity it’s not a bit more specific.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Gary Barnett View Post
                            Possibly, Anna. DO describes ‘McCarthy’ as a labourer, but some records show him as a ship’s fireman. He’s quite young when his criminal record starts, early twenties it seems.
                            Maybe the flogging marks indicate an even earlier start to his criminal career? I've seen a few juvenile delinquents given that punishment. One teenage Timothy Donovan I researched was flogged (birched maybe-is that different?) alongside his mates and I think they were all under 16.

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                            • #15
                              This fella was 15....


                              South Wales Daily News
                              April 8, 1892
                              ************
                              To Join JTR Forums :
                              Contact Howard@jtrforums.com

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