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Kosminski Letter

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  • R. J. Palmer
    replied
    Hello Tim,

    Thank you so much for your interesting and candid reply. I do have one final question (I promise!) because I am confused on one point.

    When I contacted the seller, I was told the letter was part of a ‘deceased estate,’ by which I assumed he/she meant a recent estate sale. Was I wrong about that?

    The reason I am confused is because in your final sentence you write that the book “In Darkest England” was found “in the theology department library as part of a clear-out.” Which sounds reasonable; libraries do periodically reduce their holdings.

    Did this information come from the Australian seller? Is this what he meant by a "deceased estate?”

    Also, “department” makes it sound like a college. Did he remember which college or institution had this clear-out? As you know, some universities are associated with specific religions or sects. SMU in the United States is Methodist; University College Dublin is Roman Catholic, etc. If the seller knew the specific institution it would help, or was this something originally obtained by the “deceased estate” over ten years ago?

    It is a nit-picking question, but it could be important. You could be right about the Salvation Army being a red herring, but more on that later.

    That’s it from me. I will gather together what I have found and let you decide on if it is important, worth considering, unimportant, or another “red herring.”

    Thanks again, Tim. You were quite right to come forward, and we should all thank you for it, otherwise what had happened to this letter would have always remained a mystery. Regards.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim Atkinson
    replied
    Originally posted by R. J. Palmer View Post
    Hi Tim,

    If you wanted help, all you had to do was to reveal the name of the "deceased estate" in Australia from where the letter is said to have come.

    Any meaningful research would begin there.

    If the letter came from the estate of Harold Randall of Brisbane, then people could have researched his ancestors to see if any of them were named "Walter" or "Mary," or had connections to East London, or the Salvation Army, or the Kosminskis, etc.

    In other words, try to figure out why this letter was in his possession.

    Instead, you have failed to even acknowledge whether or not you know the name of the estate, or even the name of the person from whom you purchased the letter.

    How can anyone help you if you won't even tell us what you do or do not know?
    Hi R J,
    I do not have the name of the deceased estate unfortunately.
    The Salvation Army connection seems to be a red herring other than the book the letter was found in. I contacted the archives long before I had the letter tested to no avail regarding Rachael Bell or Rachel Bell (without the 'A'). The director of the Salvation Army (Stuart) contacted me as there was a possibility that 'Dott' was a pet name for Catherine Booth (William's daughter) Again, this was fruitless. Stuart advised me that, the letter is more evangelical in regards to calling one and other brother and sister which, the Salvation Army do not. He suggested contacting Sisters of Mercy, which I did in various counties of the UK. Again, this was fruitless other than, a Rachel Bell (no 'A') I found in BDM and buried at St Mary's church in Hexham, Northumberland. She died around the right time. St Mary's church I found had a separate building behind the church which was rented by Sisters of Mercy at that time then moved to Sunderland. The Sunderland archives hold very little information on Rachel or the building occupants.
    The book 'Darkest England' was found in the theology department library as part of a clear-out when the letter was found. That was some ten years ago.
    Regards
    Tim.

    Leave a comment:


  • R. J. Palmer
    replied
    Hi Jeff (Leahy)

    I don't know if you're still following this thread, but I have found a couple of pieces of information highly relevant to the letter. I'm confident that you will find them 'interesting.'

    Unless I've misjudged the situation, you've been in contact with Tim. He doesn't appear to want to cooperate, so I'll try you. I'm willing to post this information, but I first need the answer to a couple of very simple questions. I think it is appropriate that they should go on record first.

    If you're interested, please send me a private message. If you're not, that's fine, too. I'll check back in a day or two. Take care, RP

    Leave a comment:


  • R. J. Palmer
    replied
    Originally posted by Tim Atkinson View Post
    The whole point of putting this on here was to share with ripper enthusiasts and maybe, just maybe, garner a little research help from the more experienced people
    Hi Tim,

    If you wanted help, all you had to do was to reveal the name of the "deceased estate" in Australia from where the letter is said to have come.

    Any meaningful research would begin there.

    If the letter came from the estate of Harold Randall of Brisbane, then people could have researched his ancestors to see if any of them were named "Walter" or "Mary," or had connections to East London, or the Salvation Army, or the Kosminskis, etc.

    In other words, try to figure out why this letter was in his possession.

    Instead, you have failed to even acknowledge whether or not you know the name of the estate, or even the name of the person from whom you purchased the letter.

    How can anyone help you if you won't even tell us what you do or do not know?

    Leave a comment:


  • Debra Arif
    replied
    Or the Dotterel Daily guy?

    Leave a comment:


  • Howard Brown
    replied
    Tim...

    Are you the fella who claimed to have taken photos of ghosts at Bolton Abbey back in late 2016 ?

    https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...West-Yorkshire

    Leave a comment:


  • Anna Morris
    replied
    I hope too many people are not feeling that paper. A problem with paper collectibles is condition, condition, condition. I hope the experts have given accurate advice on properly storing this letter. Some people seal paper products in plastic with what we here call the Daisy Seal-a-Meal.

    Whatever is this letter, it is a collectible artifact.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim Atkinson
    replied
    Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
    However Cris, I will not answer any questions now. Nor will I give out any more information. Keep guessing wrongly folks.

    I'm guessing you can't make heads or tails out of the letter, Tim....and wanted us all or just some of us to simple say, "Eureka Tim ! The find of the century !!!"

    So far, people have shown respect towards you in their responses. You, on the other hand, haven't. Try that route.
    You couldn't be farther from reality Howard. And I certainly wouldn't fall into your line just to gain a few plaudits. The research is on-going by myself and three other kind people with headway being made. The two experts gave me the assurance I needed especially the first expert, who gave me the confidence to put this letter on this forum after you had asked me to and to send you the pictures.
    What I wouldn't expect is personal ridicule or ridicule regarding the letter when, nobody on here has seen the letter first hand, touched its flimsy, tissue paper consistency (not rigid or lemon baked as some guesswork was suggested) or smelled it's aroma.
    The whole point of putting this on here was to share with ripper enthusiasts and maybe, just maybe, garner a little research help from the more experienced people than I can ever be. Alas, it seems I came across some school playground finger pointers trying their best to make the grade of prefect. Ah well. Live and learn.
    To the kind people who have tried to help, thank you.
    Regards
    Tim.

    Leave a comment:


  • Howard Brown
    replied
    However Cris, I will not answer any questions now. Nor will I give out any more information. Keep guessing wrongly folks.

    I'm guessing you can't make heads or tails out of the letter, Tim....and wanted us all or just some of us to simple say, "Eureka Tim ! The find of the century !!!"

    So far, people have shown respect towards you in their responses. You, on the other hand, haven't. Try that route.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim Atkinson
    replied
    Originally posted by Cris Malone View Post
    Hi Tim.
    Quick question.
    What did you think was going to happen when you posted this, given what was already known on these very boards about it?
    I was asked to put this letter on here. What I would expect is, a little decorum, constructive criticism/questioning and maybe a little less pretendy attempts at bullying from the plastic forum gangsters. Ha!

    However Cris, I will not answer any questions now. Nor will I give out any more information. Keep guessing wrongly folks.

    Regards
    Tim.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cris Malone
    replied
    Hi Tim.
    Quick question.
    What did you think was going to happen when you posted this, given what was already known on these very boards about it?

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim Atkinson
    replied
    I'm rather amused by this now.
    My credentials? Hahahaha.
    Oh dear.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris G.
    replied
    Originally posted by Anna Morris View Post
    Oh, OK. I did nor realize it went to the next page. In a small, personal letter on small paper, how common is it to write "ctd.", continued? The Kosminski information comes right after "ctd."
    "ctd." is probably a period abbreviation for "continued"

    I've seen cont., contd., cont'd., etc., in modern correspondence and other writing.

    Not sure there's any significance in the specific use of "ctd."

    Leave a comment:


  • Anna Morris
    replied
    Originally posted by Robert Linford View Post
    Hi Anna


    It's at the start of the next page and I think all it means is 'continued.'
    Oh, OK. I did nor realize it went to the next page. In a small, personal letter on small paper, how common is it to write "ctd.", continued? The Kosminski information comes right after "ctd."

    Leave a comment:


  • Paul Butler
    replied
    Originally posted by Cogidubnus View Post
    Hi Gary - in the context of "Wednesday week past", I'd take it to mean "not last Wednesday, but the Wednesday before..." you generally wouldn't say it on a Wednesday - because then you'd just say "a fortnight back"...

    Some old folk certainly used the phrase from time to time when I was a youngster...

    Dave
    Exactly. That is clearly what is meant, and it's not that unusual an expression either. I didn't give it a second thought when first reading the letter through.

    Leave a comment:

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