Kosminski Letter

[Howard Brown]

Tim:

I'm sure that you or anyone else who purchased the letter would face scrutiny concerning its provenance. Ripperologists do that in order to assure newcomers to the field that a lame horse isn't being sold as a thoroughbred.

You're probably aware of the dismissive attitude the dingbat who wrote a best seller has towards us. Regardless of how off the mark she is, its incumbent on us to show her and anyone else that the perception is wrong.

If people had made positive remarks about the letter...without giving their honest opinions, I don't think you'd have appreciated that in the long run. I wouldn't. There's only been three or four observations that cast doubt or, at least concern, over its provenance.

Did you read the correspondence R. J. Palmer had with the seller ?

On the other hand.....you didn't share that with the Forums thinking everyone would be in agreement with it as 'the real deal', did you ?

[Gary Barnett]

I knew I shouldn't have posted the letter here. So many negative experts ridiculing. I find it quite pathetic how people can be so narrow minded.

Yet you yourself initially believed the letter to be a fake?

I think you should trust your instincts.

[Anna Morris]

Authentic or not, it becomes a collectible artifact. I personally stay away from printed material because I do not know enough to make good decisions. I have the ability to collect things but I am terrified of buying that sort of thing on ebay. I know a little about fine art collecting and the very strict rules used to authenticate paintings. I apply those rules to anything I think to collect.

I deleted several thoughts I wrote earlier because I do not want to be hurtful to anyone. Yet what I deleted today I think I wrote previously before the letter was purchased and when I wrote that I was kind of talking to myself, why I would not buy the letter unless it was extremely cheap.

Some things do not seem quite right to me about the content but it is possible it was composed by someone in the right time period who knew Kosminski was suspected. If so it is still of great interest. If I had bought the letter I would count on time and many expert opinions to help sort it out.

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi guys and gals.
I have a letter dated 12th July 1889 naming 'Kosminski' that warrants research to the extent that I am reasonably inept of achieving. The letter is new to the public eye and has been professionally analysed by an expert of over thirty years experience and has assured me that the letter in 100% original to the time/period in paper, writing and wording.
The letter reads -
My Dearest Sister 12th July 1889

I duly received your kind letter dated a few days since, and was made glad to hear that you were still content in your works. Praise be to almighty God. Before this reaches you the sad intelligence of the death of our dear sister Rachael Bell will have reached you. She departed this life on Monday last around nine o’clock after much suffering. This most stirring news is delivered as such a sad dispensation. But we will continue to fight the good fight. Walter sends his blessings. Mary’s health remains well. She shares no exceptional news of late other than a she took ctd. From the Jew Kosminski Wednesday week past. On walking alongside the fruit barrow poor Mary took such fright when the lunatic ran at her with those ghastly scissors yelling his devil tongue. Mary ran all the way back. It’s a wonder he hasn't hung for what he did to those poor girls and the terror he has delivered to poor Tilly. Please give my warmest tidings to brother Michael and sister Jenny. We pray nightly of their works. I remain yours in Christ. Dott.
--------

Best Regards
Tim

Hi Tim

It would first be useful to try and establish the letter's provenance and as much detail supplied to you by your expert and his credentials.

One of the main problems we have, and like you i find the text interesting, is that it is relatively easy to find paper and ink from victorian period and create something that is convincing even to a trained expert. Then there are all the usual when was it created problems...Is it a modern Hoax or part of an older Hoax which will go on and on.

An expert like Peter Bower might be able to determine how long the ink has been attached to the paper.

But i think it would be useful if we go back to the beginning.

Can you supply all the information that was given to you by the seller?

And all the information about your expert his credentials and his written analysis of the document?

One of the reasons i suggested that you posted on jtrforums is that there are a number of people here with a lot of experience in this field who can help and advise with much experience.

Many thanks Jeff

[Jeff Leahy]

One thing I did notice is that addressing fellow worshipers as 'brother' and 'sister' was usual with members of the Brethren religious group and as we know, Anderson was part of the Plymouth Brethren.
Maybe some sort of validating link is being set up?

Hi Debs

We spent most of yesterday doing a little research on the text.

Our conclusion was this might have been written by a Quaker, they did however have links with the Brethren. Religious sects were evolving at a fast pace around this period...But the Brother and sister comments are certainly NOT salvation army like the book the seller claims the letter was found in.

I did ask Tim to post here in good faith and I am convinced he purchased the letter and had it examined in good faith.

RJ's post draws concerns over the letters provenance. So i'm hoping Tim will trust us and that everyone will treat him with the courtesy he deserves

While i understand that the timing of its appearance seems odd...Theres something about its folding and disintegration that appears well 'old' ...Yes i know you can age documents by putting them in the oven I did this as a kid with treasure maps...But I'm fairly certain a good expert could confirm the age of this letter by its condition other than the ink or paper...jsu a thought i hope Tim will bare with us

Yours Jeff

[Kattrup]

Hi Tim Atkinson


Thank you for posting the letter here. I can see why you'd be sceptical initially.

Based on the photos posted, I've a few remarks:

1. In the archive where I work, we've plenty of ledger, protocols and paper from the 19th Century. I've never seen one where the paper has become so brittle that it'd break rather than fold, as it appears has happened here.


2. I'm most familiar with German gothic handwriting, so this could be because of differences with the british style, but the writing seems to me too modern. The k's and h's for instance appear too large and fullyformed.


3. The handwriting is uneven, the letters being written in different ways. E.g. the u in suffering has a circumflex above it, the u's in other word do not. The w's in week and when are very different, most w's look like miniature capital W's but occasionally a more gothic w is used.


4. Odd turns of phrase: "my warmest tidings", "we pray mightily of their works", "was made glad" that to me appear pseudo-Victorian.


5. Uneven capitalisation, e.g. "Good fight", the sentence "On walking alongside", the O in On and the P in Poor are both capitalised.


6. writing along the lines of a ledger - this to me appears very uncommon. In modern times it is common to follow the lines of the paper to practice straight writing, but not back then.



As it seems you're now convinced the letter is genuine, based on an examination by a professional, perhaps you'd like to share what the document examiner said in his or her report?

[Debra Arif]

Hi Debs

We spent most of yesterday doing a little research on the text.

Our conclusion was this might have been written by a Quaker, they did however have links with the Brethren. Religious sects were evolving at a fast pace around this period...But the Brother and sister comments are certainly NOT salvation army like the book the seller claims the letter was found in.

Hi Jeff

I agree that it doesn't seem to be something in use by the Salvation army.
It definitely was a practice within the Brethren church, I haven't looked at Quakers.

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Tim Atkinson


Thank you for posting the letter here. I can see why you'd be sceptical initially.

Based on the photos posted, I've a few remarks:

1. In the archive where I work, we've plenty of ledger, protocols and paper from the 19th Century. I've never seen one where the paper has become so brittle that it'd break rather than fold, as it appears has happened here.

Hi Katrup

Firstly many thanks for your observations.

It's the folding aspect that interests me. I've a little knowledge for historical forgery having once researched a six part TV series on the subject.

And the disintegration caught my curiosity...either this shows a deliberate attempt at ageing the letter or that it has sat in situ for a long time. I'm fairly certain a good paper expert could distinguish between the two.

Do you have any experience of similar documents that might help us?

Yours Jeff

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Jeff

I agree that it doesn't seem to be something in use by the Salvation army.
It definitely was a practice within the Brethren church, I haven't looked at Quakers.

We understand that Quakers used the same address brothers and sisters. And there were a number of Eastend schools accociated with Quakers...we also found connection with Australia

The question at present is the provenance

Having had a little understanding of forgers, the vineland map, the salamander letters, and the Hitler diaries...this letter doesn't really fit..hardly a master forger

And why go to all that effort for 300 dollars, unless we are dealing with a forger who set out to discredit the Kozminski theory for personal gain.

But as far as i'm aware no one has ever linked the Quakers or the Brethren to Kozminski

I don't wish to appear flippant but if i were creating a letter involving Matilda i think i would have made the recipient Jewish and dropped the odd line like...'alright already I've burned the bagels'...no offence intended

Yours Jeff

[Kattrup]

Hi Katrup

Firstly many thanks for your observations.

It's the folding aspect that interests me. I've a little knowledge for historical forgery having once researched a six part TV series on the subject.

And the disintegration caught my curiosity...either this shows a deliberate attempt at ageing the letter or that it has sat in situ for a long time. I'm fairly certain a good paper expert could distinguish between the two.

Do you have any experience of similar documents that might help us?

Yours Jeff

Not really anything to add, sorry.



I notice from the photo that the letter appears to be curling inwards.



This appears in some documents we have, but only in very thick paper, almost card, that was used for maps and technical drawings. These were then often rolled up and stored in tubes. They now tend to roll back if not weighted down, and can be brittle and cracking - but as said, they're very thick to begin with, so have less flexibility.


I've never seen it in any of our ledgers, protocols or regular paper from the 19th century.



Also, a letter that has been kept inside a book would normally remain flat, I assume. Again, just going by the photo, the letter appears to be curling inwards.

[Jeff Leahy]

Not really anything to add, sorry.
I notice from the photo that the letter appears to be curling inwards.
This appears in some documents we have, but only in very thick paper, almost card, that was used for maps and technical drawings. These were then often rolled up and stored in tubes. They now tend to roll back if not weighted down, and can be brittle and cracking - but as said, they're very thick to begin with, so have less flexibility.
I've never seen it in any of our ledgers, protocols or regular paper from the 19th century.
Also, a letter that has been kept inside a book would normally remain flat, I assume. Again, just going by the photo, the letter appears to be curling inwards.

Yes thank you for these observations..they are noted

I am however still curious..how can possibly this level of disintegration have happened unless over a long period of time

Unlike most people here i am suspicious because there is obviously no financial motive (profit) in this letter...but there are a lot of anti-Kosmologists in Australia who might seek to discredit Kosmology...

I will remain open minded until we have conclusion

Yours Jeff

[R. J. Palmer]

"This most stirring news is delivered as such a sad dispensation."

This is the same transcription that was given when the letter was up for sale on eBay.

But it's clearly wrong. No one describes the news of their "sister's" death as "stirring."

Looking at the actual letter, it is obvious that the word is "striking."

It seemed to me at the time of the auction that the seller had provided a transcript of the letter with a number of rather obvious errors, as if to demonstrate or "prove" that the seller was unfamiliar with its content and was struggling to see what it said. It seemed a little strained.

[Sam Flynn]

It seemed to me at the time of the auction that the seller had provided a transcript of the letter with a number of rather obvious errors, as if to demonstrate or "prove" that the seller was unfamiliar with its content and was struggling to see what it said. It seemed a little strained.

I find "yelling his devil tongue" to be somewhat strained as well.

[Anna Morris]

To me, the writing looks like it was done by someone used to using writing implements that move easily over paper. My point is, a lot of pen and ink writing from the 1800s shows, IMO, slower and more deliberate strokes. Look at the way the T's are crossed, a fairly long, loose mark.

I am not a handwriting expert and can only judge with an artist's eye. I enjoy writing with pen and ink and a certain amount of care is needed.

On the other hand if, say, a modern person wrote the letter and tried to do it fast as would be done with a ballpoint pen, one would expect blots, scratches and even tears in the paper.

A general subject for discussion, apart from the authenticity of the letter is, if "Jew Kosminski" was so out of control as described, why was he not sectioned by the courts or confined somehow within the Jewish community? It is known that police and other authorities feared anti-Semitic riots in the autumn of 1888 so what's the chance an insane "Jew", perhaps suspected of being the Whitechapel murderer, would be allowed to act out on the streets in an assaultive manner? Or do we think the act described in the letter led to "Kosminski" being sent to the asylum? And if he acted out violently in public, why is our main knowledge about "Kosminski" that he feared his food was poisoned so he ate crusts from the gutter and his insanity was due to years of "solitary vices." Why is there no marginalia about scissors and violent language?

[Jeff Leahy]

"This most stirring news is delivered as such a sad dispensation."

It seemed to me at the time of the auction that the seller had provided a transcript of the letter with a number of rather obvious errors, as if to demonstrate or "prove" that the seller was unfamiliar with its content and was struggling to see what it said. It seemed a little strained.

Good Morning RJ

As a matter of interest did you check the sellers history? `Did he have any history of selling artefacts, old photos , books or memorabilia?

Yours Jeff