Kosminski Letter

[Eileen Luscombe]

Hi Jeff

I agree that it doesn't seem to be something in use by the Salvation army.
It definitely was a practice within the Brethren church, I haven't looked at Quakers.

How about Wesleyan? A Bell family lived Sherburn, Yorkshire, Wesleyan Methodists. Census 1881 Daughter Patty Laura Rachel Bell, aged 1 1881, died third qtr 1889 age 9. Family lived at Wesleyan Chapel. Laura Rachel buried August 1889..may be too late for a July death.
Wesleyan Methodists often refer to each other as brother/sister

[Debra Arif]

Never mind, on reading it more carefully, it looks like Dott and Walter were with Rachel, Tilly and Mary, who was attacked. Michael and Jenny and the unnamed letter recipient are elsewhere (Australia?)

That's the way I read it.

Interestingly the birth certificate of Rachel Hannah Bell who died in Belfast on 27th Aug 1889 and her death registered in Jul-Sept qtr of 89, shows that her name was also spelt the same way as in the letter at birth, as Rachael.

[Chris G.]

Hi Chris. I think the reference to the letter being "authenticated" is from Tim's first post on this thread:

The letter is new to the public eye and has been professionally analysed by an expert of over thirty years experience and has assured me that the letter in 100% original to the time/period in paper, writing and wording.

I think Eileen is quite rightly wondering who this expert is and what the 'analysis' amounted to...

Cheers.

Hi Roger

Okay, thanks. Late to the party here.

Then I would also like to know who this expert might be.

But, equally, what do we know about Tim Atkinson. What are his credentials? Do you or anybody know?

Cheers

Chris

[Robert Linford]

Hi Eileen


Apart from the late burial, isn't it a bit strange that the writer doesn't mention Pattie's parents - also presumably co-religionists - and how they are taking the tragedy?

[Sam Flynn]

What does "Wednesday week past" mean? If there is some regional dialect where this rather unusual construction is/was used, it might help us pinpoint where Dott came from.

[Chris G.]

What does "Wednesday week past" mean? If there is some regional dialect where this rather unusual construction is/was used, it might help us pinpoint where Dott came from.

"Wednesday week past" appears to be an Irish expression.

See https://tinyurl.com/yxe8b86q

"We had two remaining juvenile league finals, the Tipperary League final between Cian Maguire and Ronan Boyle was played on Wednesday week past, . . ."

Cheers

Chris

[Sam Flynn]

"Wednesday week past" appears to be an Irish expression.

See https://tinyurl.com/yxe8b86q

"We had two remaining juvenile league finals, the Tipperary League final between Cian Maguire and Ronan Boyle was played on Wednesday week past, . . ."

Interesting... there are a few other examples from Ireland there. Thanks Chris!


So "Dott" could be Irish, or at least of Irish descent.

[Debra Arif]

"My nicest excursion was Monday week past to the Trossachs"

Written in a letter in October 1861 by George Gilfillan, Scottish preacher, author and poet.

[Paul Butler]

"Wednesday week past" or alternatively "last Wednesday week" were expressions I recall being used by my west country grandparents, victorians all of them, meaning "a week ago last Wednesday".

[Debra Arif]

How about Wesleyan? A Bell family lived Sherburn, Yorkshire, Wesleyan Methodists. Census 1881 Daughter Patty Laura Rachel Bell, aged 1 1881, died third qtr 1889 age 9. Family lived at Wesleyan Chapel. Laura Rachel buried August 1889..may be too late for a July death.
Wesleyan Methodists often refer to each other as brother/sister

Hi Eileen,
Yes, I looked at that death too, as well as the lady in Belfast but like Robert, I don't think it rings true to call a young child 'sister' in the context of being a follower of a certain religion. I would think the child's mother and father would have been mentioned and perhaps the child being referred to by name and as the daughter of sister or brother so and so?

[Sam Flynn]

"Wednesday week past" or alternatively "last Wednesday week" were expressions I recall being used by my west country grandparents, victorians all of them, meaning "a week ago last Wednesday".

Perhaps modern West Country people use it, too. It's evidently still being used in Ireland - I've done a few more searches since Chris pointed that out, and I've found loads more examples.

Incidentally, while I've heard "last Wednesday week", "Wednesday week past" was a new one on me.

[Robert Linford]

Barnett's 'last Easter twelvemonth' sounds very trim, almost poetic.

[John Savage]

Hi All

I have been looking at the pictures of this letter and would like to offer my thoughts on the paper rather than what is written upon it.

First of all Chris George has suggested in an earlier post that the ruling on the paper indicates that it would have been intended for accounting work. On this I agree, however the quality of the paper is much lower than would be normally used by companies, accountants etc.

The paper used here looks to be made of mechanical wood pulp which is a low quality cheap paper used for the production of newspapers, it tends to contain impurities which cause the paper to discolor and decompose much quicker than higher quality papers. This mechanical paper was also used to make cheap note books ( I recall reporters note books of this quality as late as the 1980's)

I also note that the paper is cut with straight (probably guillotine) edges on three sides whilst the bottom edge appears to have a torn edge; this suggests that the original sheet was larger and the bottom part has been torn off.

A little more information here on mechanical wood papers:

[Paul Butler]

Hi All

I have been looking at the pictures of this letter and would like to offer my thoughts on the paper rather than what is written upon it.

First of all Chris George has suggested in an earlier post that the ruling on the paper indicates that it would have been intended for accounting work. On this I agree, however the quality of the paper is much lower than would be normally used by companies, accountants etc.

The paper used here looks to be made of mechanical wood pulp which is a low quality cheap paper used for the production of newspapers, it tends to contain impurities which cause the paper to discolor and decompose much quicker than higher quality papers. This mechanical paper was also used to make cheap note books ( I recall reporters note books of this quality as late as the 1980's)

I also note that the paper is cut with straight (probably guillotine) edges on three sides whilst the bottom edge appears to have a torn edge; this suggests that the original sheet was larger and the bottom part has been torn off.

A little more information here on mechanical wood papers:

Agreed. In earlier times paper was a much more expensive commodity than it has become, and its re-use was probably widespread.


Nothing about this letter seems out of place for a late Victorian letter between family members/acquaintances, either in the materials or the content.


I think it is still an intriguing find.

[Karsten Giese]

Hi at all!

To Dott:

As a German, when I was a child, I remember that some people named women with the name "Edith" Dott or Dotty. Also people who "held the reins" were often called Dot or Dotty. Probably inspired by Western Movies but I´m not sure.

Btw.: The name of the sister of the composer Edward Elgar was (Ellen) Helen Agnes Elgar, called Dott or Dot. I have no idea why...

Karsten.