Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Kosminski Letter

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Anna Morris
    replied
    Originally posted by Tim Atkinson
    I have had news today that my cousin has got the all clear of cancer. I have cried in joy. I go for my tests 24th and on-going. My sister died of cancer ten years ago. That broke me.
    Does this letter matter?
    Can we not just be us?
    Can we not be humans and friends?
    I'm not posting anymore as, I feel I'm causing animosity.
    Take care folks. Love your Kin.

    Tim XxX
    Tim: I hope all will be well with you.

    I have tried to be very careful about what I have said. A while back I dealt in antiques though I pretty much stay away from printed or paper material. It is a tough market and I personally enjoy severe probing to prove or disprove what I believe. I learn that way.

    I have inherited some extremely interesting things, some going back to the 1500s. I may or may not have a Chippendale table. I have amassed the family history as good as I can but provenance always needs to be explored. (I do not plan to sell any of these items.)

    Concerning your letter, you obviously found it worth owning. Many of us buy things because they have special meaning to us, thus we cherish them no matter what. Your letter is a conversation piece no matter what and it could lead to other breakthroughs in research. Thank you for sharing.

    I wish you the very best always.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim Atkinson
    replied
    I have had news today that my cousin has got the all clear of cancer. I have cried in joy. I go for my tests 24th and on-going. My sister died of cancer ten years ago. That broke me.
    Does this letter matter?
    Can we not just be us?
    Can we not be humans and friends?
    I'm not posting anymore as, I feel I'm causing animosity.
    Take care folks. Love your Kin.

    Tim XxX

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim Atkinson
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam Flynn
    I only chose my relatives in New Zealand to make an extreme point. In 1889, I see no reason why "Rachael Bell" couldn't have died in Scotland or Paris, say, whilst "Dott" lived in London.
    Yes. That makes no sense to me either Sam.
    Tim.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Tim Atkinson
    Sam,
    I see your point and I have thought about that too. Why the distance? Does it have to be Australasia?
    I only chose my relatives in New Zealand to make an extreme point. In 1889, I see no reason why "Rachael Bell" couldn't have died in Scotland or Paris, say, whilst "Dott" lived in London.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim Atkinson
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam Flynn
    What about London to Yorkshire, say? Or London to Berlin?

    What about telegraph?
    Sam,
    I see your point and I have thought about that too. Why the distance? Does it have to be Australasia?
    There is no postage envelope so, It could be anywhere.
    Tim.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim Atkinson
    replied
    Originally posted by Anna Morris
    Bell could have been a family surname or if she had been married perhaps she used her maiden name as a middle name. Rachel Bell is a nice name. Belle is a more French spelling so perhaps some English writers would assume a common British spelling. Another example is Jeanette written Janette and equated with Janet in some British records. MJK has been called Mary Janet Kelly in some articles of the day. I have found this does not get us any closer to MJK.

    (I see my questionable suggestion got Robert wound up.)
    Hi Anna.
    The name Racheal (with the 'A') is important. Any other spelling is irrelevant.
    Tim.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Tim Atkinson
    Sam,
    It took two weeks minimum to get correspondence between the continents in the 1800's.
    What about London to Yorkshire, say? Or London to Berlin?

    What about telegraph?

    Leave a comment:


  • Tim Atkinson
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam Flynn
    That being the case, we need to find a Rachael Bell who died in July 1889.

    Regarding points 1-3 above, only the date of death is truly relevant. A slight misspelling (and a common one, at that) of Rach(a)el needn't necessarily rule anyone out, and neither should the distance from London. I have family in New Zealand and, if something happened to one of them, I might write to another relative saying "You'll have heard about uncle ____", so it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that Rachael lived and died a considerable distance away from Dott.
    Sam,
    It took two weeks minimum to get correspondence between the continents in the 1800's.

    Leave a comment:


  • Anna Morris
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam Flynn
    It could have been worse - by another twist of fate she might have been known as Rachael Trumpet Seriously, it looks to me as if the letter is referring to a proper name, whether a surname or a middle name. Although "Belle" was the more common spelling of the latter, I have found several instances where "Bell" without an "e" at the end was used as a middle name. For example:

    https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...a-bell-muzzell
    Bell could have been a family surname or if she had been married perhaps she used her maiden name as a middle name. Rachel Bell is a nice name. Belle is a more French spelling so perhaps some English writers would assume a common British spelling. Another example is Jeanette written Janette and equated with Janet in some British records. MJK has been called Mary Janet Kelly in some articles of the day. I have found this does not get us any closer to MJK.

    (I see my questionable suggestion got Robert wound up.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Robert Linford
    replied
    A guy called Tubby played the tuba.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Anna Morris
    This could be a stupid suggestion, worse than some of my other ideas.

    The Salvation Army was known for its musical bands at some point. Could Rachel ________ have played the bells?
    It could have been worse - by another twist of fate she might have been known as Rachael Trumpet Seriously, it looks to me as if the letter is referring to a proper name, whether a surname or a middle name. Although "Belle" was the more common spelling of the latter, I have found several instances where "Bell" without an "e" at the end was used as a middle name. For example:

    Leave a comment:


  • Anna Morris
    replied
    This could be a stupid suggestion, worse than some of my other ideas.

    The Salvation Army was known for its musical bands at some point. Could Rachel ________ have played the bells? So, what Rachel died 8 July, etc?

    Or will Rachel Bell become the MJK of the Kosminski letter provenance? Incorrect name, associations, etc?

    Leave a comment:


  • R. J. Palmer
    replied
    Here's an update. There's been a rather large complication. I don't know how much I can give away without revealing the seller's name, but it appears that I was given wrong information by the Secondary College in Australia, but have since been able to sort it out.

    As previously noted, the man's name was not found in their enrollment records, which made it appear as if his resume was bogus. The man also inexplicably referred to W---- College as "W---- University" in his resume, which also sent up red flags.

    Yet, starting to smell something was not quite right, I went through the painful task at looking at all the college's on-line student photos and recognized a young man, enrolled in the year 1992, who looks remarkably similar to our man in Australia. He was enrolled under a slightly different name. I would have thought that the officer at the school I spoke to would have spotted it, but she didn't. He was, in fact, enrolled at the college in question, and later changed his name slightly, due to his career in the entertainment industry.

    Further, I've been able to discovered that a man by the same name edited a small Salvation Army magazine in Melbourne in the early 2000s. Long before the Kosminki letter surfaced, he refers to having been a theology student years ago. This was at W----- College, which was formerly associated with a university in eastern Australia. The same small college I referred to earlier. Thus, elements of the seller's provenance story cannot be dismissed, and, in fact, are partially verified, and I think it is only fair to point this out for Tim's benefit. I stand corrected and apologize for having been led astray. The man's various name changes had complicated things.

    That said, I think our Australian friend still has some explaining to do before his story can be accepted. W---- College still has its copy of Booth's In Darkest England, and as previously noted, it is an 1984 edition. The seller would also still have to explain why his provenance story changed dramatically between the sale of the letter and what he later told Tim; why he purchased a genuine 1889 envelope and letter a year ago (verified); how it could be that the letter was found "accidently" in a book by William Booth (founder of the Salvation Army) and seems to refer to Salvation Army workers, while the seller himself (and his family) have had a long association with the self-same religious group. (It seems they later left due to theological differences). And finally, who is this "Rachel Bell," died 8 July 1889? It's an increasingly odd set of circumstances and all it lacks is a Paul Feldman in order to send if over the edge.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam Flynn
    That being the case, we need to find a Rachael Bell who died in July 1889.
    ...or conceivably a Rach(a)el Bell "Something", if Bell was a middle name, or a surname retained after marriage. Alternatively, a "Something née Bell" might work, if Bell was her maiden name.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam Flynn
    replied
    Originally posted by Tim Atkinson
    Rachel Bell of Hexham was a non starter for three reasons.
    1, The spelling of the name.
    2, The date of death,
    3, Distance from London.
    It was just a meagre piece of BDM research I did a few weeks back and gave me no relevance to the letter. So, that was discarded.
    That being the case, we need to find a Rachael Bell who died in July 1889.

    Regarding points 1-3 above, only the date of death is truly relevant. A slight misspelling (and a common one, at that) of Rach(a)el needn't necessarily rule anyone out, and neither should the distance from London. I have family in New Zealand and, if something happened to one of them, I might write to another relative saying "You'll have heard about uncle ____", so it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that Rachael lived and died a considerable distance away from Dott.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X
👍