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  • Originally posted by Cris Malone View Post
    Hi Tim.
    Quick question.
    What did you think was going to happen when you posted this, given what was already known on these very boards about it?
    I was asked to put this letter on here. What I would expect is, a little decorum, constructive criticism/questioning and maybe a little less pretendy attempts at bullying from the plastic forum gangsters. Ha!

    However Cris, I will not answer any questions now. Nor will I give out any more information. Keep guessing wrongly folks.

    Regards
    Tim.

    Comment


    • However Cris, I will not answer any questions now. Nor will I give out any more information. Keep guessing wrongly folks.

      I'm guessing you can't make heads or tails out of the letter, Tim....and wanted us all or just some of us to simple say, "Eureka Tim ! The find of the century !!!"

      So far, people have shown respect towards you in their responses. You, on the other hand, haven't. Try that route.
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      • Originally posted by Howard Brown View Post
        However Cris, I will not answer any questions now. Nor will I give out any more information. Keep guessing wrongly folks.

        I'm guessing you can't make heads or tails out of the letter, Tim....and wanted us all or just some of us to simple say, "Eureka Tim ! The find of the century !!!"

        So far, people have shown respect towards you in their responses. You, on the other hand, haven't. Try that route.
        You couldn't be farther from reality Howard. And I certainly wouldn't fall into your line just to gain a few plaudits. The research is on-going by myself and three other kind people with headway being made. The two experts gave me the assurance I needed especially the first expert, who gave me the confidence to put this letter on this forum after you had asked me to and to send you the pictures.
        What I wouldn't expect is personal ridicule or ridicule regarding the letter when, nobody on here has seen the letter first hand, touched its flimsy, tissue paper consistency (not rigid or lemon baked as some guesswork was suggested) or smelled it's aroma.
        The whole point of putting this on here was to share with ripper enthusiasts and maybe, just maybe, garner a little research help from the more experienced people than I can ever be. Alas, it seems I came across some school playground finger pointers trying their best to make the grade of prefect. Ah well. Live and learn.
        To the kind people who have tried to help, thank you.
        Regards
        Tim.

        Comment


        • I hope too many people are not feeling that paper. A problem with paper collectibles is condition, condition, condition. I hope the experts have given accurate advice on properly storing this letter. Some people seal paper products in plastic with what we here call the Daisy Seal-a-Meal.

          Whatever is this letter, it is a collectible artifact.
          The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

          Comment


          • Tim...

            Are you the fella who claimed to have taken photos of ghosts at Bolton Abbey back in late 2016 ?

            https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...West-Yorkshire
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            • Or the Dotterel Daily guy?

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              • Originally posted by Tim Atkinson View Post
                The whole point of putting this on here was to share with ripper enthusiasts and maybe, just maybe, garner a little research help from the more experienced people
                Hi Tim,

                If you wanted help, all you had to do was to reveal the name of the "deceased estate" in Australia from where the letter is said to have come.

                Any meaningful research would begin there.

                If the letter came from the estate of Harold Randall of Brisbane, then people could have researched his ancestors to see if any of them were named "Walter" or "Mary," or had connections to East London, or the Salvation Army, or the Kosminskis, etc.

                In other words, try to figure out why this letter was in his possession.

                Instead, you have failed to even acknowledge whether or not you know the name of the estate, or even the name of the person from whom you purchased the letter.

                How can anyone help you if you won't even tell us what you do or do not know?

                Comment


                • Hi Jeff (Leahy)

                  I don't know if you're still following this thread, but I have found a couple of pieces of information highly relevant to the letter. I'm confident that you will find them 'interesting.'

                  Unless I've misjudged the situation, you've been in contact with Tim. He doesn't appear to want to cooperate, so I'll try you. I'm willing to post this information, but I first need the answer to a couple of very simple questions. I think it is appropriate that they should go on record first.

                  If you're interested, please send me a private message. If you're not, that's fine, too. I'll check back in a day or two. Take care, RP

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by R. J. Palmer View Post
                    Hi Tim,

                    If you wanted help, all you had to do was to reveal the name of the "deceased estate" in Australia from where the letter is said to have come.

                    Any meaningful research would begin there.

                    If the letter came from the estate of Harold Randall of Brisbane, then people could have researched his ancestors to see if any of them were named "Walter" or "Mary," or had connections to East London, or the Salvation Army, or the Kosminskis, etc.

                    In other words, try to figure out why this letter was in his possession.

                    Instead, you have failed to even acknowledge whether or not you know the name of the estate, or even the name of the person from whom you purchased the letter.

                    How can anyone help you if you won't even tell us what you do or do not know?
                    Hi R J,
                    I do not have the name of the deceased estate unfortunately.
                    The Salvation Army connection seems to be a red herring other than the book the letter was found in. I contacted the archives long before I had the letter tested to no avail regarding Rachael Bell or Rachel Bell (without the 'A'). The director of the Salvation Army (Stuart) contacted me as there was a possibility that 'Dott' was a pet name for Catherine Booth (William's daughter) Again, this was fruitless. Stuart advised me that, the letter is more evangelical in regards to calling one and other brother and sister which, the Salvation Army do not. He suggested contacting Sisters of Mercy, which I did in various counties of the UK. Again, this was fruitless other than, a Rachel Bell (no 'A') I found in BDM and buried at St Mary's church in Hexham, Northumberland. She died around the right time. St Mary's church I found had a separate building behind the church which was rented by Sisters of Mercy at that time then moved to Sunderland. The Sunderland archives hold very little information on Rachel or the building occupants.
                    The book 'Darkest England' was found in the theology department library as part of a clear-out when the letter was found. That was some ten years ago.
                    Regards
                    Tim.

                    Comment


                    • Hello Tim,

                      Thank you so much for your interesting and candid reply. I do have one final question (I promise!) because I am confused on one point.

                      When I contacted the seller, I was told the letter was part of a ‘deceased estate,’ by which I assumed he/she meant a recent estate sale. Was I wrong about that?

                      The reason I am confused is because in your final sentence you write that the book “In Darkest England” was found “in the theology department library as part of a clear-out.” Which sounds reasonable; libraries do periodically reduce their holdings.

                      Did this information come from the Australian seller? Is this what he meant by a "deceased estate?”

                      Also, “department” makes it sound like a college. Did he remember which college or institution had this clear-out? As you know, some universities are associated with specific religions or sects. SMU in the United States is Methodist; University College Dublin is Roman Catholic, etc. If the seller knew the specific institution it would help, or was this something originally obtained by the “deceased estate” over ten years ago?

                      It is a nit-picking question, but it could be important. You could be right about the Salvation Army being a red herring, but more on that later.

                      That’s it from me. I will gather together what I have found and let you decide on if it is important, worth considering, unimportant, or another “red herring.”

                      Thanks again, Tim. You were quite right to come forward, and we should all thank you for it, otherwise what had happened to this letter would have always remained a mystery. Regards.

                      Comment


                      • Hi R J,
                        Thank you.
                        In all honesty, when I mailed the seller post sale of the letter, I could not obtain any information about a deceased estate. The seller gave me a run down of how it was found etc -
                        When studying at the Melbourne university in theology, he and others were tasked with the clearance of, if you like, old stock. The letter was found in the book ten years ago whilst he was studying there. It has since languished in a storage container along with other items he has. He's a collector of signatures which interested him in the letter. The 'estate' may have been a selling point? I do not know.
                        Regards
                        Tim.

                        Comment


                        • Hi Tim,

                          That means he would have been enrolled at the Trinity College Theology School, at the University of Melbourne. Trinity College is Anglican, but that wouldn’t pose any problems, because libraries at theology schools carry books of all faiths. As you no doubt know, the Salvation Army is an offshoot of Methodism, but I don’t think that tell us anything, other than maybe someone with Methodist leanings would be attracted to a book by William Booth. Your comments on Rachel Bell are interesting. If you don’t mind, I sent you a private message.

                          Cheers.

                          Comment


                          • Not at all R J.

                            Comment


                            • Mormons called each other brother and sister and still do to some extent. They have had extensive missionary activities in other countries, perhaps especially Britain.

                              However I think of early Mormon missionaries as male rather than including females or going out as couples.

                              I could see the term "devil tongue" being used by early Mormons, especially considering how Prophet Joseph Smith "translated" a number of ancient documents to get various Mormon books of faith.

                              The description "devil tongue" in the letter bothers me. Was the language Polish, Yiddish or schizophrenic gibberish? IMO for someone to describe whatever utterance as a "devil tongue" implies the person using the term believed in a very fundamental branch of Christianity which accepted or encouraged "speaking in tongues." Pentecostal comes to mind but I think of that as an American manifestation.
                              The wickedness of the world is the dream of the plague.~~Voynich Manuscript

                              Comment


                              • Hi Anna,
                                The Mormon aspect could be something. There are a few evangelical organisations that refer to each other as sister and brother.
                                The 'devil tongue' around my area (Yorkshire, England) would refer to someone blaspheming. I suspect he would have had some practise in the English language or, it could be Polish or Jibberish as you say.
                                Regards.
                                Tim.

                                Comment

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