Lechmere and Pickfords

[Larry Evilsizer]

From what I can tell, Lechmere stated he had worked for Pickfords for a number of years but did not say where. Ripperology has assumed Lechmere worked at Pickfords’ main office. Where does Lechmere say he worked at Broad Street?

Pickfords having a main office implies Pickfords also had branch offices spread around London. Is it possible Lechmere didn’t operate out of Broad Street but out of one of these branches instead?

Specifically, did Pickfords run shipping/receiving at Spitalfields Market (SM) and is it worth discussing Lechmere worked at SM when these murders occurred and not at the main office?

Since it’s about a 20 minute walk from Doveton to SM, Lechmere leaving home at 3:25-3:30 would have him arriving at SM around 3:45-3:50, some 10-15 minutes before 4:00 (presumably when shifts started). Being at work that much earlier than the others could indicate Lechmere was the early morning supervisor (he was responsible for opening shipping/receiving), and as such would be the person who decided when employees would be docked for tardiness. I doubt Lechmere (as supervisor) would ever punish himself regardless of how late he was, which could make his statement about being behind time somewhat moot.

Being the early morning supervisor could also indicate Lechmere never left SM and could have been around the market under little observation from, let’s say, 4:15-5:30, giving him an excellent opportunity to murder Ms. Chapman.

From what I can tell, the only two places operating at SM at 4:00 in the morning would be shipping/receiving and security,

I’ve been exploring this idea for a few months now and have came up with a murder map with SM being the epicenter of these crimes.

And no, there isn’t any “evidence” Lechmere worked at SM; there’s not much “evidence” he worked anywhere, including Broad Street.

Please forgive me if this post violates the recent rule addition, but I have no idea what the new rule means.

Thanks for your time,
Larry

[Steve Blomer]

No, it does not violate any rule, it is a legitmate question.
However, there seems little if anything to support the ideas, particularly that he was a supervisor.

But let's see if anyone comes up with anything


Steve

[Mark J D]

From what I can tell...

[Facetious, twaddling garbage snipped.]

When the cat's away, eh...?

M.

[Gary Barnett]

Numerous newspapers covering the inquest mentioned that he worked at Broad Street. Have a look at The Times of 4th September as an example.

Pickford’s head office was in Wood Street in the City of London, but that was primarily an admin centre. Their two largest depots were at Broad Street and Camden. Of the six hundred and fifty horses they used in London, three hundred were based at Broad Street. Their main role in London was as a railway agent, i.e. they carried goods on behalf of railway companies - the LNWR at Broad Street for example.

[Gary Barnett]

Incidentally, Spitalfields was just a market place where numerous wholesalers/retailers had separate pitches. That’s how all the markets worked: Billingsgate, Smithfield, Covent Garden etc.

This kind of thing:

[Gary Barnett]

This is a great series about the London markets.

This particular episode is about the new Spitalfields market. I can recommend the ones on Billingsgate and Smithfield.

As a kid I had a weekend job at Billingsgate. We got there about 4.30/5.00 and there were plenty of people around.

Back in Victorian times a lot of meat and fish came into Broad Street and Liverpool Street, including cat’s meat. Pickfords were heavily involved in the carting of the meat. There was a particular train - the Scotch Meat and Fish Express - that arrived at Broad Street around 3/4 (from memory).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CUwlS0aMkJ8

In 1901, Lechmere described himself as a railway agent’s carman and on the Booth survey of 1887 he was shown as a carman rly.

In 1891, his 14-year-old son was described as a van guard. Later he was described as a meat Carter - specifically cats meat on some records - and lived in Winthrop Street a few doors down from the knackers yard.

Lechmere’s mother ran two cats meat businesses in the Highway from approx 1890 to 1900, when he was 65-75, and the family continued in the business until some of them lost their lives in the Bethnal Green tube disaster in WWII.

[Gary Barnett]

I’m sure everyone knows that Broad Street and Liverpool Street were next door to each other - the main entrance to Broad Street Station was actually in Liverpool Street.

[Gary Barnett]

You’ll notice that the journalist described the horse flesh as ‘good-looking’. It can’t have been packed in boxes or even wrapped in muslin, I’d have thought.

There is another report of a German who had hidden himself in a railway wagon full of horse flesh to avoid paying the fare from Scotland to London (Broad Street). To sustain himself on the long journey he tucked into the horse flesh. I don’t think I ever established the time the train arrived at Broad Street. I’ll have another look. Perhaps the wagon was part of the Scotch Meat and Fish Express.

Then we have the report of the Pickford’s driver who tried to deliver some cats meat to James Stockton (Harriett Hardiman’s relative*) in Bethnal Green but it was rejected as being putrid so he tried another dealer nearby. The meat had been sent by rail from Crewe. It’s not clear which London station it came into, but Broad Street seems likely.

Talking of Stockton, I discovered recently that one of Lechmere’s neighbours in James Street was a Stockton and that she ran a cats meat shop there. And, if that wasn’t coincidence enough, her son-in-law who lived with her was a packing case maker.

* I’m sure everyone knows that Stockton was Harriett’s maiden name and that the Stocktons were a cats meat dynasty. :-)

[Gary Barnett]

One last thing. Before Pickfords started operating at Broad Street (1868/9) they were based at Haydon Square, near the Minories - and not far from Mitre Square. While we know that Lechmere was working at Broad Street in 1888 and had worked for Pickfords for more than 20 years, we don’t know how much more, or whether he’d worked out of Broad Street the entire time. He may well have started work when he was 14/15 while Pickfords were still at Haydon Square. More than 20 years could mean 20 years and six months, or it could mean 23/24 years.

[Gary Barnett]

The bible of Pickfords research is this:

https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Traffic_and_Transport.html?id=RuCsDwAAQBAJ&source=kp_book_description&redir_esc=y

The author, Gerald Turnbull, mentions Pickford’s predominance in the cartage of meat from Broad Street and Liverpool Street to Smithfield in the 1890s and gives as his source an 1893 Royal Commission on Labour.

I’ve looked for the particular RC he references but haven’t yet found it.

[Gary Barnett]

You’ll notice that the journalist described the horse flesh as ‘good-looking’. It can’t have been packed in boxes or even wrapped in muslin, I’d have thought.

There is another report of a German who had hidden himself in a railway wagon full of horse flesh to avoid paying the fare from Scotland to London (Broad Street). To sustain himself on the long journey he tucked into the horse flesh. I don’t think I ever established the time the train arrived at Broad Street. I’ll have another look. Perhaps the wagon was part of the Scotch Meat and Fish Express.

Then we have the report of the Pickford’s driver who tried to deliver some cats meat to James Stockton (Harriett Hardiman’s relative*) in Bethnal Green but it was rejected as being putrid so he tried another dealer nearby. The meat had been sent by rail from Crewe. It’s not clear which London station it came into, but Broad Street seems likely.

Talking of Stockton, I discovered recently that one of Lechmere’s neighbours in James Street was a Stockton and that she ran a cats meat shop there. And, if that wasn’t coincidence enough, her son-in-law who lived with her was a packing case maker.

* I’m sure everyone knows that Stockton was Harriett’s maiden name and that the Stocktons were a cats meat dynasty. :-)

The German gentleman who scoffed the cat’s meat on the train from Scotland (in 1876) was arrested at Broad Street at 5.00am.

[Gary Barnett]

This is from the Worcestershire Chronicle of 4th February, 1888. It doesn’t give an explicit time for the arrival of the ‘Scotch Meat and Fish Express’ into Broad Street, but doing the maths it would seem it was around 4.15. Perfect timing for CAL and about right for the German cats meat scoffer.

Not definitive, just another small indicator. They may all be pointing in the wrong direction, but they should be noted.

[Gary Barnett]

This is a great series about the London markets.

This particular episode is about the new Spitalfields market. I can recommend the ones on Billingsgate and Smithfield.

As a kid I had a weekend job at Billingsgate. We got there about 4.30/5.00 and there were plenty of people around.

Back in Victorian times a lot of meat and fish came into Broad Street and Liverpool Street, including cat’s meat. Pickfords were heavily involved in the carting of the meat. There was a particular train - the Scotch Meat and Fish Express - that arrived at Broad Street around 3/4 (from memory).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CUwlS0aMkJ8

In 1901, Lechmere described himself as a railway agent’s carman and on the Booth survey of 1887 he was shown as a carman rly.

In 1891, his 14-year-old son was described as a van guard. Later he was described as a meat Carter - specifically cats meat on some records - and lived in Winthrop Street a few doors down from the knackers yard.

Lechmere’s mother ran two cats meat businesses in the Highway from approx 1890 to 1900, when he was 65-75, and the family continued in the business until some of them lost their lives in the Bethnal Green tube disaster in WWII.

Incidentally, the Booth survey of 1887 recorded a ‘carman ry’ living at 22, Doveton Street. Perhaps he was a mate of Lechmere’s.

That’s an interesting thought. Because if he was a colleague from Pickfords and he was also a neighbour in Doveton Street where all CAL’s kids were known as Lechmere…

I’m sure you know where my thoughts are rambling.

[Mark J D]

Incidentally, the Booth survey of 1887 recorded a ‘carman ry’ living at 22, Doveton Street. Perhaps he was a mate of Lechmere’s.

That’s an interesting thought. Because if he was a colleague from Pickfords and he was also a neighbour in Doveton Street where all CAL’s kids were known as Lechmere…

I’m sure you know where my thoughts are rambling.

So that's the same address Lechmere moved to in June 1888? Who was the guy?

Mark D.

[Larry Evilsizer]

Thanks everyone for your responses, and especially Gary for providing ideas for me to further investigate my theory.