Karsten Giese, Jeff Leahy, etc...New David Kozminski/Cohen Thread

[Stephen Thomas]

Spectacle Alley is shown on old maps but isn't named due to lack of space.

It now has a street sign saying Whitechurch Passage E1.

[Robert Linford]

Spectacle Alley is shown on old maps but isn't named due to lack of space.

Or maybe it is named, but the print's so small you need glasses to see it.

[Karsten Giese]

And a man in church passage would have an excellent view of those pickup points?

Hello Jeff,

What strikes me is that the Ripper, in the night of the Double Event, took two breaks! The first break after Stride in Church Lane (opposite entrance Osborn Street), the second break after Eddowes in Goulston Street. I guess, in both cases, the Ripper wanted to go home. But after Stride he decided against this. The junction Wentworth Street/Old Montague/ Brick Lane/ Osborn Street is the middle between Church Lane and Goulston Street. This is the place where Emma Smith was found. If Smith was a Ripper victim, his first victim, he killed her very close to his shop. If we will be looking for shops in/near/junction Brick Lane 1888 we will find a shop connected with the Kozminski family.

Yours Karsten.

[Karsten Giese]

Spectacle Alley is shown on old maps but isn't named due to lack of space.

It now has a street sign saying Whitechurch Passage E1.

Spectacle Alley is shown on old maps but isn't named due to lack of space.

Or maybe it is named, but the print's so small you need glasses to see it.

Hello Stephen, Hello Robert,

I work with a Geoff Cooper Map and I can clearly see (named) Spectacle Alley.

Karsten.

[Karsten Giese]

If Smith was a Ripper victim, his first victim, he killed her very close to his shop.

Sorry, she died four days later due to her serious injury in the London Hospital.

[Jeff Leahy]

Hey Jeff,

I saw on Facebook you are back... stronger than before... ;-)

In my fantasy I really can imagine that Matilda, after the Brick Lane incident in November 1888 (if that is the case that Matilda and Aaron were involved in it), was looking for help. Maybe, she had found out that Aaron could be the Ripper and became wary. A few days later she was attacked by him and although she initially protected Aaron she changed her mind after Aaron had been admitted to a private asylum in Surrey. If Samuel and Isaac Abrahams (from their "Kalish- community") knew Matilda Lubnowski (+Isaac, Woolf and Aaron) it is possible that, via Phillip Abrahams and Alfred Salmon (both signed the petition), there was a connection to the butcher Samuel Gluckstein Abrahams of 58/62 Butchers Row and to Montague, and to Crawford´s "sweat shop system" (Cox: "We told them we were factory inspectors looking for tailors and capmakers who employed boys and girls under age, and pointing out the evils accruing from the sweaters' system asked them to co-operate with us in destroying it") which was used by the police to watch this suspect. Via Phillip Abrahams and Alfred Salmon and Montague´s petition some things were possible, I guess. Finally, a letter from Crawford to Anderson concerning Matilda and Aaron would be possible. Perhaps, the butcher Samuel Gluckstein Abrahams could have been aware that Aaron Kozminski was a suspect in the Whitechapel murders. So, maybe, he also protected Aaron, or he helped the police. Remember, Sagar observed his suspect opposite 58/62 Butchers Row in December 1890, shortly before Aaron Kozminski went to Colney Hatch (Sagar: "and after a time his friends thought it advisable to have him removed to a private asylum"). Matilda´s grandfather was a butcher and Jacob Cohen, too.

Yours Karsten.

Hi Karsten

Do we know that Jacob Cohen was a butcher? or is that a guess?

Yours Jeff

[Jeff Leahy]

Hello Jeff,

What strikes me is that the Ripper, in the night of the Double Event, took two breaks! The first break after Stride in Church Lane (opposite entrance Osborn Street), the second break after Eddowes in Goulston Street. I guess, in both cases, the Ripper wanted to go home. But after Stride he decided against this. The junction Wentworth Street/Old Montague/ Brick Lane/ Osborn Street is the middle between Church Lane and Goulston Street. This is the place where Emma Smith was found. If Smith was a Ripper victim, his first victim, he killed her very close to his shop. If we will be looking for shops in/near/junction Brick Lane 1888 we will find a shop connected with the Kozminski family.

Yours Karsten.

Well yes Smith was right on the Junction...Inspector Drew certainly considered she was a ripper victim..

[Jeff Leahy]

Hello Stephen, Hello Robert,

I work with a Geoff Cooper Map and I can clearly see (named) Spectacle Alley.

Karsten.

Could do with marking all the speculated areas on a map...

I'll think about animating it once we have completed our move, rather busy this month

Yours Jeff

[Anna Morris]

Emma Smith said she was attacked by a gang. What if she was and was left unconscious and Jack found her that way. That could explain the horrific injury to her private parts. Her availability could have tipped Jack over from fantasy to action. Perhaps failing to find another such available victim he learned how to create his own.

Since a number of people died unattended and on the streets, etc. it would be interesting to note if there had been any pattern of corpse mutilation preceding Jack's activity, or of women's bodies found with clothing pulled up or other suggestive desecration.

Great thread!

[John Malcolm]

Hello Anna,

Given the time Emma Smith recounted being attacked and the long gap before she returned to her lodgings, I've often wondered if in fact she had been found unconscious and assaulted yet again by someone other than the attackers she described. It might go a long way in explaining a few things. Also, might it be possible that Martha Tabram was found and attacked in a similar (yet evolved) way? She may very well have been sleeping on the landing in George Yard Buildings. Somewhat more of a longshot, might Mary Ann Nichols have been huddled, sleeping, in the dark and somewhat secluded spot in Buck's Row? Cross and Paul seemed to have considered that she was drunk/sleeping. And it has been suggested (and recently) that Mary Kelly could have been sleeping when she was attacked. This might explain her neatly folded clothes. I'm not suggesting any probabilities, but taking these things into consideration certainly gives one pause to consider alternative scenarios when looking at the murders of these women.

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Anna and John

I must admit I'd never given these ideas much thought.

I think it more probable that Nichols expected to access the yard and discovered the gate was locked and was taken by surprise from behind.

This was almost certainly Eddows fait

But yes Kelly does seem to have removed her clothes and gone to bed, possibly asleep when she was attacked....

An interesting observation..

I'd always assumed Smith lied about the gang, she was a prositute or that Jack was with a gang before going solo but you know what they say about assumptions

Yours Jeff

[Tammy Green]

Hello All,

What is the chance that Nathan Shine was the seaside home witness?!

That may explains many things:

-They knew about him lately
-The 'difficulties'
-He was also a jew
-He was still Young
-He refused to swear against a felw jew
-He saw him in action with a knife and that will maybe enough to hang the suspect, not like others who saw a man with one of the victims but not in the killing mode


Thanks

[Anna Morris]

Hi, Tammy. I think a lot of us have wondered about that. (I am one who wondered if Nathan Shine was another name for Israel Schwartz since their stories are similar. I think, through the good work of Debra A., that we can now trace Israel Schwartz over a number of years with that name.)

On another thread Peter Kearns asked why a Jew would not testify against a fellow Jew and I replied with several ideas. Nathan Shine's story indicates he saw Liz Stride being killed. That was the murder where the name Lipski was said to have been called out according to Schwartz. The Lipski trial was extremely polarizing. It is about a Jew who killed a pregnant Jewish female and got gentile justice. He confessed at the end but many believed he was innocent and anti-Semitism was suggested.

Basic common sense could have led a Jew not to get involved in a trial likely to be more sensational than the Lipski trial. At least Lipski was about a Jewish perpetrator against Jewish victim. G-d help the Juwes who would be the men blamed for everything if JtR turned out to be a Jew preying on the fair blossoms of gentile English womanhood. (And so I believe, they would have been portrayed if a "foreigner" had been identified as JtR.)

(If you have not read the Lipski trial at the Old Bailey online I highly suggest reading every word of it. It gives a real good slice of life and living conditions right in JtR's hunting ground. Though it happened a year before JtR, much can be learned about how Jack may have used some basic aspects to escape. One other thought about JtR is that his crimes started or were noticed about a year exactly after Lipski was hanged. We can find a number of coincidences in the JtR story and probably most of them do not mean anything but this is interesting anyway.)

[Tammy Green]

Thank you Anna,

What if all this serie of Jack the Ripper's murders happened as a revenge against the Lipski trial one year before ?! That explains perfectly the GSG:

" Jewes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing"

From the same double event night, there was the shout "Lipski" that Schwartz heared.


Thanks.

[Anna Morris]

Thank you Anna,

What if all this serie of Jack the Ripper's murders happened as a revenge against the Lipski trial one year before ?! That explains perfectly the GSG:

" Jewes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing"

and from the same double event night, there was the shout "Lipski" that Schwartz heared.


Thanks.

It is something to think about and to research but a lot of good ideas can be disproved pretty fast. I have wondered if Lipski had a friend who was avenging his death. Lipski was a hard working young man who seemed to have friends. A Russian Jew named Lobulsk, he roomed with the Polish Jews named Lipski, for a long while and assumed their name.

Some, perhaps many, believed him innocent. Even his confession to a rabbi at the end was seen as coerced by some. Frankly, even I think he was guilty and I will believe anything. Lipski's explanations made NO sense.

But, he killed a married woman whom he had probably spied on over a period of time through a skylight. It was a poisoning case. I am not sure how even a faulty conviction in such a case could be avenged by killing homeless prostitutes, with a knife.