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Haynes on Cream

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  • Haynes on Cream

    Haynes testimony in the Cream trial:
    (all I gotta say is 'ucking 'ell!)

    JOHN HAYNES . I am an engineer—I am out of employment—about the beginning of April last I went to lodge at Mr. Armstead's, a photographer, of 129, Westminster Bridge Road—I was there introduced to Neill—he afterwards told me he was agent for the Harvey Drug Company—he showed me a case of samples I have since seen—I was to an extent a good deal in his company—I went about with him in the daytime, and in the evening sometimes—on one occasion Mr. Armstead made a communication that we were being followed, that his house was being watched—I asked Neill if it was he they were following—he said, "No. certainly not"—I said, "I cannot go to the music-hall with you to-night without making inquiry"—that was about 14th May—instead of going to the music-hall that night I went to make inquiries—the following day I told Neill he ought to have told me the evening we were together that he knew he had been followed for some time—he said he had been followed for another man who lived in the same house as he; he said his name was Walter Joseph Harper, a medical student at St. Thomas's—I asked him why they followed Harper—he made a verbal statement at that time, and afterwards a written statement which I took down in his presence with his permission—his verbal statement was as nearly as possible the same as was afterwards reduced to writing—these are the rough notes I took at the time, at the Café Paris in Ludgate Hill, where we went to dine together:—"Walter J. Harper, M.R.C.S., L.R.C.R., student at St. Thomas's, at one time well-known among a low class of people, B.T. lived at time of murder at 103, Lambeth Palace Road, father an M. D. at Barnstaple (B, St.), being supplying son with ample means while in London, promising son partnership on account of, etc. W.J.H. got girl at Mutton's at Brighton in trouble some time back, procured abortion for her. Stamford Street girls aware of this, H. visiting them, they threatened him, blackmail, victims. W.J.H. weeks before tried to purchase strychnine, telling him of his trouble, asking what he could do under the circumstances, be well to get rid of them, etc., person suspecting wrote

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    girls warning, anonymous letter, etc.; is fairish, 5-8, slim, thick brown mustache, haughty and distant in manner, gentlemanly, etc., etc. Ask Sidney Jones, consulting surgeon, Thomas's. Issued invite to H. to wedding of daughter. Left day before inquest suddenly, leaving property behind, 118, Stamford Street, Mrs. E. Vogt. Did girls receive anon, letter before affair. J. H.—A. B. H."—the name of the terrace is underlined—"B. T. "is Blythe Terrace—that is to show she lived there—"B. St. "is Bear Street—"on account of, etc., "means" on account of old age"—that was given to me to make inquiries by Neill—he gave me the names of Marsh and Shrivell—they received anonymous letters before death, before taking poisons from Dr. Harper—that was given me in order that I might investigate it if I wished to prove his statement—after making that memorandum he mentioned incidentally at the time that Harper had not alone poisoned Marsh and Shriven, but three other women—he mentioned the names, Ellen Donworth, Matilda Clover, Loo Harvey—some time after the first meeting he told me that Matilda Clover lived at 27, Lambeth Road—he went with me and pointed out the house to me—he said she had been poisoned with strychnine, and that her body should be exhumed, when the poison would be found—he asked me to make inquiries that very morning—he waited outside till I made inquiries—I inquired if Matilda Clover had died there from poison—he said Loo Harvey had been poisoned by Harper at a music-hall, and that she had fallen dead either at the music-hall or between two music-halls which he named, I think the Royal and the Oxford—he said Loo Harvey resided at 55, Townshend Road, St. John's Wood—I went with him there—he pointed me out the house where she had resided, 55, Townshend Road—I made inquiries—he said the reason Harper had told him of the victims in the different cases was that Marsh and Shrivell were acquainted with Harper at Brighton—he said he was on terms of the greatest friendship with Harper—he said that Harper being in trouble had asked him to procure strychnine for the purpose of poisoning those girls—he said that he had written an anonymous letter to Shrivell and Marsh, warning them not to take medicines of any kind from Dr. Walter J. Harper—I have made other notes for my own purposes—they are at home, 129, Westminster Bridge Road—apart from these notes I wrote a statement which I gave to the authorities—I can find my other notes.
    Wednesday, 19th October.
    JOHN HAYNES (Re-called by MR. GILL). After I had been to Townshend Road with the prisoner, I went there with Sergeant McIntyre, and pointed out the house to him—when the prisoner made the statement to me about young Mr. Harper, I told him it was a very grave matter, and asked him how it was that he had not communicated what he knew to the authorities, and that I thought it my duty to do so—he said it was very foolish of me to think about doing such a thing, as there was more money to be made out of it by seeing Walter J. Harper's father at Barnstaple—I said to him that this was not America, and he could not do as he pleased here; that it was a penal offence—he said he did not care—I remember being on an omnibus with him towards the end of May, and hearing the newspaper boys calling out, "Arrests in the Stamford Street case," upon which the prisoner appeared agitated, and called my attention to it, and he wanted to get down and buy the papers; we were then some

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    hundred yards from Charing Cross, coming west—I remonstrated with him as to getting down, and said, "We shall be at Charing Cross directly, and then you can buy the papers"—when the 'bus stopped at Charing Cross we gat down, and he purchased the whole of the evening papers, all that the vendor had, and he gave me one to read, in fact, he gave me the whole of them—he asked me to read that item of news; it referred to an arrest in what was known as "The Stamford Street Road to Ruin" case—it had nothing to do with the inquest on Marsh and Shrivell; when I read it to him he appeared much relieved—I was with him on the day of his arrest until five minutes before his arrest, and I learnt of it later on in the evening; he wanted to send for me, but was not allowed—his arrest took place in the early part of the week following the omnibus incident—this pencil note I produced at the inquest—I went with Inspector Harvey to Westminster Bridge Road last night and found there a telegram and a note with it, and this little memorandum on the back of a letter from a notable person to myself—it is rubbed, it had been in my pocket for weeks; it is the name and address of Matilda Clover in Lambeth Road—the telegram has nothing to do with the case; it is from the prisoner to myself.
    Cross-examined. I have travelled a good deal, in America among other places in the world—I was introduced to the prisoner at Mr. Armstead's the photographer's—during the progress of our acquaintance we frequently discussed America and some prominent people there—he told me he had travelled in various parts of America—when we spoke about this blackmailing I believe I told him it was punishable with penal servitude—I acquired that legal knowledge in travelling about the world a good deal for forty years—I am an engineer out of employment—I will with the greatest pleasure write on a piece of paper where I was last employed and by whom. (The witness did so)—I may tell you I never thought I should be a witness against Neill—this refers to a firm of engineers in America, where I was working in January, 1891—I was not out of employment since then—I am not a detective—I have been a private inquiry agent in London and elsewhere, making inquiries for the British Government, in America and elsewhere—I told that to the prisoner—I mentioned the name of Le Caron to him—when I mentioned that I had conducted private inquiries for the British Government he naturally grew more confidential with me. Q.—And he told you everything you desired to know? A.—I did not desire to know anything; he told me this—I did not say I thought the matter should be put before the authorities—he showed me a photograph of young Mr. Harper, which he said he had stolen from Miss Sleaper's album—the more I wrote the more confidential he grew, he told me that Loo Harvey had dropped down dead in the street, poisoned at a music-hall—he did not tell me that three weeks after that alleged poisoning he had met Loo Harvey in Air Street and given her a drink—if he had told me that it would have done away with the poisoning story, and destroyed my interest in him—I have no claim against the British Government, nor against the late Home Secretary—no money was owing to me; I never told the prisoner it was—I was not anxious to get employment in the police force—I knew Mr. Soames—I have written to Sir Edward Jenkinson many times—he gave me a testimonial—I did toot recommend myself to him as an engineer or private inquiry agent—

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    I was introduced to him—it was not my ambition to obtain the position of inspector in the London or Liverpool police, or in any police—my conversations with the prisoner took place at the Cafe Paris, Ludgate Hill, and other places—I am always provided with pencil and paper—I openly jotted down everything—I have seen the prisoner on many occasions taking morphia and strychnine and opium.