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Arthur Conan Doyle JTR?

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  • Arthur Conan Doyle JTR?

    Yes i know this sounds like a crazy idea like the possibility that Lewis Caroll or Walter Sickert was JTR but look at the possibilites. He is in the right time frame for a start, He wouldn't be out of place in an identity parade of JTR's witnessed at the time. (take a look at his photo, Wikipedia)
    He qualified as a physician and worked for some time on a whaling boat as ships surgeon, where it was noted that "He took a sadistic pleasure" in the cruelty of the whaling industry, enjoyed the sight of the blood & whales being cut up.
    When he completed his doctorate it was in Edinburgh 1885 specialising in the medical condition called tabes dorsalis sometimes called locomotor ataxia which is usually caused by syphilis in its third stage & worse stage by attacking the spinal cords.
    While in scotland Banardo another JTR suspect was also studying at the university of Edinburgh for his medical degree. They could have quite easily been known to each other, and may have worked together for a while at the London hospital Whitechapel.
    They would have both been used to the numerous passageways and tunnels that are like a warren under the Scottish city, similar to tunnels in London that could act as good escape routes, like the one for example under the Hoop & grapes pub in the East End where a tunnel allegedly goes to the Tower of London (it is bricked up now)
    Also interesting is the fact that although brought up & educated at a Roman Catholic Jesuit school he became a freemason later in life.
    All this and the fact that he had a brilliant mind and could write crime thrillers so adeptly that for alot of people Sherlock Holmes became a real life detective. His knowledge of victorian london and its underworld came to life in his books.
    Oddly he never let Holmes try to crack the Jack case although news of it was all around him at the time
    Of course all this is hypothesis and there is so little of him mentioned anywhere in JTR lore. Perhaps someone else has more info i could look up?

    the red dahlia x

  • #2
    I know he believed in fairies

    Comment


    • #3
      Dear Red:

      Just a suggestion and its made with no condescension:

      When people posit the idea that Dr. Barnardo or Conan Doyle or Lewis Carroll were the Ripper...we might as well include every man in Britain to the list of suspects. Pro-suspect based books do attract people to the Case and often provide valuable information on the characters being written about....but when it gets to the part of the script where they have to fit the suspect into the frame as the Ripper, its usually less than convincing and often an easily dismantled premise.

      Suspect based Ripperology and an emphasis on that area of the Case is the easiest way to self-delude yourself and abuse time worth better spending on aspects of the Case such as newspaper reports, inquest reports, and learning about the times the murders occurred. I made a similar mistake in following a line of suspect theory in the wrong direction a few years back and fortunately reversed my direction.

      Whaling is a man's man's field of endeavor. Its not for the cowardly type,thats for sure, and there's really no connection between enjoying whaling and gutting women on the street. Few people who ever watched bullfights in Madrid went out and ripped open women in a similar fashion to the Ripper....if you see where I am going with this.
      To Join JTR Forums :
      Contact Howard@jtrforums.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Hello Dahlia

        There's not much similarity between subterranean Edinburgh and subterranean London. In other words, Edinburgh was an ancient walled city that was built up and down to take advantage of the limited space with tall buildings and many underground rooms and passages. It said that a number of those underground rooms were blocked up with their inhabitants inside in times of plague... a cheering thought. Conan Doyle indeed would have been aware of such underground passages and probably used them. But the East End of London did not have the same such subterranean passages apart from the sewers and there's no reason to think that Doyle used them.

        In regard to Doyle being involved with whaling, this does link in with a theory of Dr. Dennis Gratwick Halstead that the Ripper could have been a sailor with the North Sea fishing fleet, so to that extent the idea that someone involved in the fishing (or whaling) industry could have been in killer has been mentioned before. On the other hand, apart from Doyle's possible fascination with blood and the brutality of whaling there's nothing else from that experience, I should think, that would make him especially a candidate to have been the Ripper. Rather, the major reasons we might think of him as a suspect are Doyle's surgical skill -- though there's some doubt whether the Ripper actually showed much surgical skill -- and his like of mysteries, and possibly wanting to fool the authorities. In other words that he might have wanted, as the Ripper, to be Sherlock Holmes's doppelgänger, a force for evil rather than good.

        Best regards

        Chris George
        Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
        https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

        Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
        Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

        Comment


        • #5
          thankyou for replies

          Hi there thanx for replying to this thread, did try to submit a post yesterday but had technical probs.
          Now i;ve forgotten what i had written! uh der!!!!, still no smilies appearing?
          if this goes through ok and i remember what i put i'll post it
          Red Dhalia x

          Comment


          • #6
            Hello, Red:

            I have looked at your settings and cannot understand why you cannot see smilies. If you still cannot, email me your password at btmosley@entouch.net and I will log in as you to see what may be the trouble.

            Re ACD, it is also thought that he was the joker behind the Piltdown Man hoax. This was never proved, but for that he is the #1 suspect.

            Doyle wrote a number of straight horror stories such as Lot No. 249 and The Silver Hatchet, the latter involving a cursed hatchet that causes all those who hold it to commit murder with it. He may have just been giving the public what he thought it wanted, but these stories are bloody and may give a glimpse as to what really made the good doctor tick.

            ACD could certainly have been the ripper, but his candidacy is no more likely than, say, Abberline's or any of his contemporaries. But it is worth pursuing since the more likely candidates have led us nowhere, and who would have ever thought that Dennis Rader was BTK?

            Comment


            • #7
              Thankyou very much for that info on ACD & especially about that particular story he wrote. Think i may still keep digging a little to c what else comes up about him.
              It was never a pet theory only just found out he had been a suspect when went to Ye Olde Cheshire Cheese pub in fleet st, The place has quite a history it was where Charles Dickens, Dr Johnson, Conan Doyle and other writers would meet up & have a good old gossip over a pint of Samuel Smiths,
              Also home to Polly the Parrot, who could swear fluently in nine different languages;} (quite a feat!)
              Anyway thats when i found out about ACD.
              Yes Nemo,he did believe in those fairys:} those sisters did well dining out on that one for as long as they did !!
              No all my money for years has been put on James Maybrick being JTR because of the diary of course.
              But have had to come to conclusion that sadly yes they are a forgery, albeit an extroidinary forgery!
              When the first book came out "The Final Chapter" was blown away by it.
              Just can't understand how Michael Barrett & Anne Graham came up with such an unusual way of writing a journal, i mean psychologically speaking it could have leapt from a serial killers mind.
              But when u read how Michael Barrett did it, was like he'd just been watching Blue Peter or something!!
              no1 find an old book, anything will do, scrapbook, photo album
              no2 Use blue/black ink
              no3 bake in oven on gas mark 5 for 10 mins untill it's nicely aged
              no4 Put it under loose floorboards for electricians to find
              no5 Alert the sunday newspapers
              ;] ;}
              Sorry to go rambling on, anyway got to go think i can smell something burning!!
              Hope its not that Agatha Christie diary whoops! i mean chocolate cake in the oven :} :}
              Last edited by The Red Dahlia; January 20, 2010, 05:02 PM. Reason: missed out word

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by The Red Dahlia View Post
                Just can't understand how Michael Barrett & Anne Graham came up with such an unusual way of writing a journal, i mean psychologically speaking it could have leapt from a serial killers mind.
                But when u read how Michael Barrett did it, was like he'd just been watching Blue Peter or something!!
                no1 find an old book, anything will do, scrapbook, photo album
                no2 Use blue/black ink
                no3 bake in oven on gas mark 5 for 10 mins untill it's nicely aged
                no4 Put it under loose floorboards for electricians to find
                no5 Alert the sunday newspapers
                ;] ;}
                Just for my own peace of mind, Red, you were joking here, weren't you?

                This bears about as much resemblance to any of Mike's actual claims, and what you could have read about them, as his claims did to the truth.

                Also, on a semi-serious note, I'm constantly surprised that people never seem to stop and ask themselves why Mike didn't adopt the floorboards story, which would have given him the perfect provenance for the diary. He would have none of it, sticking instead with his useless "got it from a dead drinking pal" yarn.

                Course you did, Mike, course you did.

                Love,

                Caz
                X
                I wish I were two puppies then I could play together - Storm Petersen

                Comment


                • #9
                  If The Red Dahlia would like to engage Caroline and others in diary-related debate, she should petition for permission to post in the Maybrick forums, which would all be better forums for such a thing than Jack-Out-of-the-Box.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by admin View Post
                    If The Red Dahlia would like to engage Caroline and others in diary-related debate, she should petition for permission to post in the Maybrick forums, which would all be better forums for such a thing than Jack-Out-of-the-Box.
                    Hi Dahlia

                    Yes if you wish to talk Diary you better apply to join the Maybrick forums. Or should that be fora? After a while on the Maybrick/Diary fora you will feel you have four eyes, but. . . . Good luck.

                    As for Sir Arthur Conan Doyle as Jack the Ripper, it seems highly unlikely. About as unlikely, as Caz will tell you, as Mike Barrett concocting the Diary.

                    Chris
                    Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
                    https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

                    Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
                    Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Conan Doyle is a very interesting man to research

                      Conan Doyle and Harry Houdini are both good examples of intelligent men, both in the business of deceiving people in a sense, who believed wholeheartedly in the Victorian science of contacting the dead, among other things

                      Houdini went on to lose his belief in such practices and successfully exposed many of the tricks used by mediums and the like

                      Conan Doyle, however, truly believed in much of the Victorian spiritualist stuff and the paranormal in general - hence his belief in those fairy photographs

                      The strong beliefs expressed by Doyle and Houdini concerning the paranormal are reflective of the "gullibility" of the population at the time.

                      Millions of people of the time believed in ghosts, fairies and the like and were very superstitious

                      The truth was that there were myriad tricks being carried out on people which, to those people, actually were paranormal events

                      It was much worse than Derek Acorah

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Did Houdini actually ever believe in spiritualism?

                        I know his debunking meant he lost his friendship with Conan Doyle (who thought that Houdini actually had powers and was using them to drive mediums out of business by blocking their own powers).
                        Jon

                        "It is far more comfortable to point a finger and declare someone a devil, than to call upon your imagination to try to understand their world."


                        http://www.jlrees.co.uk



                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This is one part of the JTR case that I really don't like - the amount of innocent, in many cases perfectly decent and constructive members of Victorian society who constantly have their names dragged through the mud as one of, if not the most infamous serial killer of all time, long after they are alive and able to defend themselves. It must be horrible for any living descendants that happen to read something like this.

                          No, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle was not Jack the Ripper. Why not? Because he's Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.
                          Why don't we blame Houdini for the murders as well - could explain the rapid escapes of JTR from the murder sites, after all! It must be him wot dunnit!

                          Cheers,
                          Adam.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by The Red Dahlia View Post

                            No all my money for years has been put on James Maybrick being JTR because of the diary of course.
                            But have had to come to conclusion that sadly yes they are a forgery, albeit an extroidinary forgery!
                            We keep the Maybrick discussions in quarantine, for the good of all.

                            Apply for the key thereon.

                            For the record, I do believe Maybrick was the Ripper. But as the sole Maybrickian on the site, I firmly suggest discussion in the appropriate threads.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Jon

                              I'm sure Houdini at least wanted to believe

                              He went to mediums to try and contact his dead mother, but found most to be fraudulent, dedicating much of his life thereafter to exposing the mediums

                              I think his search was for a real medium, which he never found

                              Conan Doyle organised a seance to contact Houdini's mom for him, and was able to give him a long document written to him by his mother via a medium and automatic writing

                              However, the writing was in English, which his mother didn't speak, and also, she never mentioned her birthday, which unbeknown to Conan Doyle, was on the same day as the seance

                              Conan Doyle explained this away when questioned by Houdini but Houdini didn't really believe him

                              Houdini kept his hopes up after his death, he promised to contact his wife if it was at all possible, but it never happened

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