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  • Originally posted by Colin Roberts View Post
    Give me a few days, Tracy; and, I will provide you with a whole lotta data/analysis, regarding 'Jewish' marriages, and illegitimacy.

    In any case, it should all boil down to the following:

    - Jews were relatively frequently married, in the St. Luke Registration District, in the late 1840's

    - Overall rates of illegitimacy, throughout London, were in the low single-digits, in the late 1840's
    "Give me a few days, ..."

    I'll need a few more, Tracy. I've run into some 'diversions', so to speak; but, I will get back to the task at hand, as soon as I am able.

    Here's what I've found, thus far:

    Registered Marriages, Classified as 'Jewish', 1842

    - Westminster Registration District: 2
    - St. James Westminster Registration District: 3
    - Strand Registration District: 2
    - City of London Registration District: 133

    Sub-Total, Registration Division of London: xxx

    Total, England: xxx

    ---

    Registered Marriages, Classified as 'Jewish', 1846

    - St. James Westminster Registration District: 14
    - Strand Registration District: 6
    - City of London Registration District: 160

    Sub-Total, Registration Division of London: xxx

    Total, England: xxx

    ---

    Registered Marriages, Classified as 'Jewish', 1847

    - St. James Westminster Registration District: 9
    - Strand Registration District: 3
    - St. Luke Registration District: 36
    - City of London Registration District: 93
    - Whitechapel Registration District: 5

    Sub-Total, Registration Division of London: xxx

    Total, England: xxx

    ---

    Registered Marriages, Classified as 'Jewish', 1848

    - St. James Westminster Registration District: 7
    - Strand Registration District: 4
    - St. Luke Registration District: 75
    - City of London Registration District: 37
    - Whitechapel Registration District: 7

    Sub-Total, Registration Division of London: 130

    Total, England: 186

    ---

    Registered Marriages, Classified as 'Jewish', 1850

    - St. James Westminster Registration District: 8
    - Strand Registration District: 3
    - St. Luke Registration District: 109
    - City of London Registration District: 68
    - Whitechapel Registration District: 10

    Sub-Total, Registration Division of London: 198

    Total, England & Wales: 260

    Registered Marriages, Classified as 'Jewish', 1851

    - St. James Westminster Registration District: 8
    - Strand Registration District: 3
    - St. Luke Registration District: 110
    - City of London Registration District: 89

    Sub-Total, Registration Division of London: 210

    Total, England: 260

    ---

    Registered Marriages, Classified as 'Jewish', 1852

    - St. James Westminster Registration District: 14
    - Strand Registration District: 4
    - St. Luke Registration District: 90
    - City of London Registration District: 74

    Sub-Total, Registration Division of London: 182

    Total, England: 247


    ---

    I will fill in the xxx's, and attempt to present this data - as well as all additional data, of relevance, which I am able to compile - in some sort of analytical format, at some point, in the coming week.

    And, I haven't forgotten the issue of 'illegitimacy', Tracy.

    Comment


    • Hi Colin

      When you have a chance is fine - anything you can post is a bonus.

      Sorry I haven't posted earlier, having problems with my internet.

      So according to your research, The City of London was most popular from 1842 - 1847. St Luke's from 1848 - 1852. Does this give an indication of the opening and closing of synagogues in the area or just they were the 'hip' choice of the time?

      Again I appreciate the time you are taking out to show this information.

      Tj
      If you're going to be two-faced at least make one of them pretty.

      Comment


      • Hi all


        QUOTE=Stephen Thomas;114377]Hi Tracy

        Lady Anderson (Sir Robert's wife) is said to have told somebody that JTR died in Stone Asylum like Levy. Someone else could maybe elaborate on this.[/QUOTE]


        While discussing the case with Stewart (Evans) he pointed out the fact that the statement apparently made by Lady Anderson actually has no basis in fact, it was made by a man named Steward Hicks who couldn't prove that this comment had been made. He couldn't remember where he had heard it.

        Steward Hicks put forward a suspect by the name of Dr John Hewitt, who was a patient at Coton Hill asylum. However he couldn't have been Jtr as he was actually at the asylum while the killings where being committed.

        So it looks like we will have to nix the Lady Anderson quote to help our Jacob Levy theory along.


        Tj
        If you're going to be two-faced at least make one of them pretty.

        Comment


        • Hi all

          Everything is so tantalising, Jimi found details of a Jacob Levy acquitted for sexual assault at the age of 16 at Clerkenwell magistrates, but that is all we can access. If it is our Jacob Levy, it shows he had priors, so we are so close but no physical evidence to back it up.


          My apologies, not sure if it makes a big difference but it was indecent assault not sexual assault that a Jacob Levy was charged with.


          tj
          If you're going to be two-faced at least make one of them pretty.

          Comment


          • Very good work Tracy. Keep it up. But just don't solve the case before my book on Kozminski comes out!

            Rob H

            Comment


            • Hi Rob

              Congratulations on your book, I don't think you need worry about me solving the case, better people than me have tried...and failed, Kozminski is safe.

              tj
              If you're going to be two-faced at least make one of them pretty.

              Comment


              • Hi all

                We have located the information on the Jacob Levy who assaulted someone on Ancestry also. I am not sure how to show the page from Ancestry so I will just type the info.

                England and Wales Criminal Register 1791 - 1892

                Name - Jacob Levy
                Date of trial - 9 Feb 1874
                Trial year - 1874
                Location of trial - Middlesex England
                Sentence - it does say Imprisonment however when you go into the original it is actually states he was acquitted - not sure where the imprisonment is from).

                The offense was indecent assault.


                tracy
                If you're going to be two-faced at least make one of them pretty.

                Comment


                • Hi all

                  Debra Arif discovered this newspaper report with regards to a Jacob Levy and a charge of indecent assault. It certainly look like this may be the person who was arrested for indecent assault and not 'our' Jacob.


                  SERIOUS CHARGE AGAINST AN OLD SOLDIER

                  Jacob Levy, 43, described as a cigar maker, was charged with indecently assaulting a girl under the age of 12 years - the prisoner, in his defence, sais that he had won the Victoria Cross at Delhi and while in the army had gone through the Afghanistan, Burmese, and Crimean campaigns, and had been engaged at Delhi and Lucknow. He had lost a leg and hand and was on board the Blue Jacket when the vessel caught fire. He entirely denied the charge and it appeared that the girl had not given details of any complaint until 36 hours after the alleged assault. The Jury found the prisoner 'Not guilty' and he was discharged.

                  Lloyd's Weekly feb 15 1874

                  Many thanks to Debs for taking the time to look this up.

                  Tracy
                  If you're going to be two-faced at least make one of them pretty.

                  Comment


                  • Hi all

                    I have finally found some info on Jacob's brother, Abraham Levy who committed suicide on May 26th 1875. Although I can't guarantee this is the same person I think it is highly probable, Abraham was born 1853/54 making him 21/22, in the 1871 census he is classed as living at home and is a butcher -:

                    Friday May 28th 1875 - Glasgow Herald

                    Results of an unfortunate Speculation

                    Yesterday Mr Humphrey's, the coroner for the Eastern division of Middlesex received information of Mr Abraham Levy, age 22 years, carrying on the business of butcher at Whitechapel london.
                    Deceased had bet heavily on the Derby and on the arrival of the news of the result he appeared very desponding.
                    At a quarter -past six the door of his bedroom was found to be locked, and on its being burst open he was discovered suspended by a rope. A doctor was called in, but life had been extinct some time. On account of the Jewish custom an inquest will be held this day. (Friday).

                    Tracy xx
                    If you're going to be two-faced at least make one of them pretty.

                    Comment


                    • A few comments on Abraham's suicide

                      I don't mean to sound insensitive but I somehow expected the suicide to be something more like Druitt's, can't face living life, depressed etc, rather than lost money gambling and decided to end it all in his bedroom. I am not trying to say he wasn't ill, just not the way I assumed he had done it.

                      I wonder if he was still living at home, as far as I am aware he never married, so it is possible..if so, I wonder who found him.

                      Also if he had been betting heavily all day, was found at quarter past six but had been dead some time, he must have acted quite quickly, I wonder if he had been thinking about this previously.
                      If you're going to be two-faced at least make one of them pretty.

                      Comment


                      • Hi all

                        While trying to verify the information I have on Caroline Solomons I came across a problem, it seems that she may be 2 different people.

                        It is quite possible I am wrong so if anyone knows Jewish tradition, was it possible for a Jewish person to change their Hebrew name?

                        The information we have collected on Joseph Levy's wife was she was named as Catherine/Caroline Brynah Solomons who married Joseph Levy on 3 Sep 1848, her father was named Abraham. She was born abt 1819.

                        While looking this info up I have found accounts of 2 different women who make up this info, with a few differences.

                        First one is a birth record
                        Name - Caroline Solomons
                        Hebrew name - Keila
                        Address - New Street Bishopgate
                        Fathers name - Abraham
                        fathers Hebrew Abraham b Yecheil.

                        Second one is marriage
                        Family name - Solomons
                        Forename - Catherine
                        Hebrew name - Brynah
                        Date - 3 sep 1848
                        Fathers Hebrew name - Isaac
                        husband - Joseph Levy

                        How possible is it that these are still the same person?

                        If it helps we do know that the woman who married Joseph called herself Caroline in all the census reports (1851 - 1888) besides for 1871 when she went by the name Catherine.

                        Also Joseph Levy's father's name was Isaac so could this just be a simple mistake.

                        Tracy
                        If you're going to be two-faced at least make one of them pretty.

                        Comment


                        • Hi all

                          More updates...

                          First one is a birth record
                          Name - Caroline Solomons
                          Hebrew name - Keila
                          Address - New Street Bishopgate
                          Fathers name - Abraham
                          fathers Hebrew Abraham b Yecheil.

                          This Caroline doesn't appear to be our Caroline after all.

                          I have managed to find a Caroline Solomons born in New Street Bishopgate, father's name Abraham Solomons, she had quite a few brothers and sisters born at the same address with the same fathers name -:

                          Berta Jun 11 1823 -
                          Julius May 5 1830 -
                          Jeanette Jun 13 1831 -
                          Sarah Aug 30 1833-1928
                          Adelaide Sep 5 1834 -1923
                          Frederika Jan 31 1837 - 1927 (classed as Fredrick and male in the 1851 census)
                          Sigismund Dec 31 1836
                          Leopold 1841 - 1915.
                          Emma 1845 -

                          This is the Caroline that married Julius Henry Fiedler on 12 Oct 1842. They had 9 children, 3 with the same names as her brothers and sisters. She died 16 Aug 1897 and was buried Willesden Jewish Burial Ground Middlesex.


                          Second one is marriage
                          Family name - Solomons
                          Forename - Catherine
                          Hebrew name - Brynah
                          Date - 3 sep 1848
                          Fathers Hebrew name - Isaac
                          Husband - Joseph Levy

                          This Catherine is obviously the Catherine/Caroline we are looking for as she married Joseph Levy.
                          Now thanks to Chris Phillips excellent research skills we have added information that answers a few questions that have been bugging me.

                          The new information -:
                          1848 Great Synagogoue Chambers... Parish St James Duke's Place... City of London
                          Third day of September 1848
                          Name Joseph Levy/full/Bachelor/Butcher/4 Little Middlesex Street Whitechapel/Isaac Levy Deceased
                          Catherine Solomons/full/Widow/----/4 Little Middlesex Street Whitechapel/Abraham Solomons Deceased.
                          Great synagogue chambers...Jewish religion...D Wertheimer
                          Joseph Levy
                          Mark of Catherine Solomons
                          Mark Marks
                          Hyam Jonas (both common witnesses)
                          Simeon Oppenheim Secy ofthe Great synagogue Duke's Place.

                          Catherine is classed as a widow, which points to the fact that Rebecca and Jane may not have been born out of wedlock after all (unless she just said that she was a widow, but I would imagine if she lived in Aldgate most her life people would know if she never married.)
                          Also she either married a Solomons or changed her name back to her maiden name after her husbands death for some reason, I am not sure if this was common thing to do?
                          It looks like her father was named Abraham after all, Isaac must have been a simple mistake on the website.

                          Tracy
                          If you're going to be two-faced at least make one of them pretty.

                          Comment


                          • Hi all

                            Hyman Sampson was who Jacob was caught stealing meat from in 1886, and sent to an asylum, Hyman lived at 58 Goulston Street until it was knocked down in 1886/7.


                            I posted this last year and have since realised that it is not quite correct.

                            Hyman Sampson lived at 58 Goulston Street in 1871 (classed as Thomas but is clearly Hyman when you look at the original). He is classed as a butcher 48 born in Poland Russia living with him is
                            Elizabeth Sampson 44 born Poland Russia
                            Sarah 14 born in Poland Russia
                            Leah 9 born in Whitechapel Middlesex
                            Hannah 4 born in Whitechapel Middlesex
                            Samuel Brawer 25 Servant Butcher Poland Russia
                            David Fordonsky 19 Servant Butcher Poland Russia
                            Kate Daley 30 domestic servant Poland Russia

                            In 1881 he is still at 58 Goulston Street he is classed as a master butcher employing 2 men and 2 boys.
                            Elizabeth Sampson 56 Poland Russia
                            Leah 18 Butcher's daughter Whitechapel Middlesex
                            Annie 13 Scholar Whitechapel Middlesex
                            Julia Welch 30 General Servant Whitechapel Middlesex
                            Phillip Ellisberg 18 Butcher ????Russia
                            Abraham Krokoski 18 Butcher New York USA
                            Elias Talouias 14 Butcher ????? Russia
                            John Sampson 12 Butcher Whitechapel Middlesex

                            I am not sure if John is part of his family or just has the same last name. Would seem a little strange if he was part of the family to be placed last on the census sheet.

                            I stated above that Hyman was living at 58 Goulston Street at the time of the theft of meat by Jacob, this is in fact incorrect. (Sorry!!) According to the Old Bailey transcript of the theft of meat by Jacob, Hyman lived at 35 Middlesex Street (Jacob at 36). It is possible that he did indeed move from Goulston Street because of the demolition to make room for the Wentworth buildings but he could have moved before that.

                            A little further digging shows that Hyman died 2 April 1887. However things are a little confusing (for me anyway) as there seems to be 2 probate records.

                            First one - 20 May Administration of the personal estate o Hyman Sampson late of 35 Middlesex Street Aldgate in the City of London. Butcher who died 2 April 1887 at 35 Middelsex Street was granted at the principal Registry to Betsy Sampson of 35 Middlesex street widow the relict. Personal estate £437.

                            Also - Hyman Sampson Middlesex street Aldgate London died 2 April 1887 Administration, London. 6 July to Hannah Kratoski (wife of Aaron Kratoski) Effects £130. Former grant May 1887.

                            Probate date 6 July 1898.

                            Does this mean for some reason Elizabeth had to pay Hannah Kratoski £130 for some reason?


                            Tracy
                            If you're going to be two-faced at least make one of them pretty.

                            Comment


                            • Hi all

                              Brought the question of this Hannah Kratoski receiving £100 from the will of Hyman Sampson years later to Jimi and he wondered if it could be that Hannah was maybe a daugther who had to wait to come of a certain age before recieving the money. Looking at the census reports this may well be the answer as we have a Hannah aged 4 in 1871 and Annie aged 13 in 1881. This could be Hannah Kratoski mentioned.

                              This is what I get for going ahead on my own without discussing it with him

                              Tracy
                              If you're going to be two-faced at least make one of them pretty.

                              Comment


                              • Hi all

                                Just an update on the Hyman Sampson information.

                                Chris Phillips kindly sent me an advertisement he came across from Hyman Sampson's wife advertising the butcher business. Also a clipping showing Hymans burial details. Sorry won't let me paste the information - I will type it out the way it is worded.

                                MRS SAMPSON
                                Widow of the late Hyman Sampson
                                KOSHER BUTCHER
                                67 (late 35) Middlesex Street
                                Aldgate
                                Supplies families with the best meat at lowest possible prices. A large stock of
                                Smoked beef .....Wholesale..... 1s per 1lb
                                Salt Beef " 9d "
                                Worscht " 8d "
                                and tongues always on hand.
                                EARLY DELIVERY TO ALL PARTS.

                                You will notice she has moved from 35 Middlesex Street to 67 after the death of her husband. However she seems to have kept the business running herself. Chris found the advert published on 10 and 17 February, 20 April, 11 and 25 May, 1, 13 and 29 June and 27 July 1888.

                                Also the notice of his funeral -:

                                THE TOMBSTONE in memory of the late HYMAN SAMPSON, out of 35 Middlesex Street will be set at West Ham Cemetery on SUNDAY, the 15 inst, at 8 o'clock - friends will kindly accept this, the only intimation.

                                Tracy
                                If you're going to be two-faced at least make one of them pretty.

                                Comment

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