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Stuart Cumberland & The "Florence Maybrick Diary"

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  • Stuart Cumberland & The "Florence Maybrick Diary"

    According to the soon to be released book by Spiro Dimolianis ( excerpts from this book may be found on Google), Jack the Ripper & Black Magic
    we find the following statement on page 19 :

    "An alleged three volume Florence Maybrick diary, in which James Maybrick was named as Jack The Ripper, was brought to (Stuart) Cumberland's
    attention in September 1889, and given his interest in the crimes of Jack The Ripper, added some interest to the shaky provenance
    of the modern "Maybrick Diary?", published in 1993 as the
    Diary of Jack The Ripper ( later proven to be a hoax). ( Page 19- S.Dimolianis).

    Stuart Cumberland
    appeared in several London and American newspapers beginning in the Fall of 1888 up into the early part of the 1890's. He claim to fame is that he claimed the "gift" of clairvoyance.

    First of all...where did the author get the idea that there was a contemporary diary...in three volumes,no less, declaring James Maybrick was Jack The Ripper in 1889 ?
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  • #2
    Debs brought this to my attention ( I honestly didn't recall it ). Much appreciated,lady....

    http://www.casebook.org/dissertation...y/mhguide.html

    Having read this and having just skimmed through Feldman's "The Final Chapter", I still didn't locate any clear reference to Maybrick being named in his wife's alleged diary as Jack The Ripper or that the letter from Liverpool ( August 19, 1889) suggests Maybrick and the Ripper were one and the same.
    Maybe its just me....
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    • #3
      Originally posted by How Brown View Post
      Debs brought this to my attention ( I honestly didn't recall it ). Much appreciated,lady....

      http://www.casebook.org/dissertation...y/mhguide.html

      Having read this and having just skimmed through Feldman's "The Final Chapter", I still didn't locate any clear reference to Maybrick being named in his wife's alleged diary as Jack The Ripper or that the letter from Liverpool ( August 19, 1889) suggests Maybrick and the Ripper were one and the same.
      Maybe its just me....
      I just scrolled through Melvin Harris's dissertation but don't see where her alleged diary Florence claimed that her husband was the Ripper. That claim is new to me. Can you point me to the part of Harris's dissertation where this is discussed?

      Thanks

      Chris
      Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
      https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

      Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
      Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

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      • #4
        Chris:

        Likewise, I don't see that either...in case you were asking me.

        I just rephrased the title of the thread.
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        • #5
          Thanks, Howard. Similarly I don't see how Spiro can claim that a supposed connection between Stuart Cumberland allegedly seeing Florie Maybrick's rumored diaries would in any way lend credence to the Maybrick Diary that came to light in the early 1990's, with a whole century between the two. It sounds as if this is yet more fantasy.

          All the best

          Chris
          Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
          https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

          Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
          Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

          Comment


          • #6
            CG:

            I'd bet that Spiro put that line about the Maybrick Diary being "proven to be a hoax" to please some of those who he lists in the credits...although no such thing has occurred to date, regardless of whether anyone dismisses it as having any relevance to the Case.
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            • #7
              I must have found a preview other than Google books the other day as it gave a large section from the bibliography

              Strangely, the page doesn't appear on my web history

              I'll search it out again

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              • #8
                Strangely, the page doesn't appear on my web history

                That's black magic for ya, Nemo...
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                • #9
                  Could be Howard, you know how these thing work

                  But any curse has probably rebounded as I just found it again...

                  http://books.google.com/books?id=p3w...page&q&f=false

                  You can gather quite a bit from his references

                  He says that Donston probably blended different occult texts and ideas, and expounded on the theories of Diosy to come up with his suggested use for the uteri taken from the victims

                  I'll save those comments for another thread when I get the book - bit steep on the price though

                  Stewart says in in it that Spiro explains how Donston got out of the hospital or something along those lines

                  Are there some prison diaries from Mrs Maybrick in which it is a matter of opinion whether she refers to her husband as JtR?

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                  • #10
                    Stewart says in in it that Spiro explains how Donston got out of the hospital or something along those lines

                    My copy is on the way,Neems...the price is steep...but I figured that another attempt to "make" D'onston a suspect was in the making. Spiro is on record as claiming that D'Onston "could have" killed Nichols since he was in proximity of the London Hospital.
                    My sister 'could have been" my brother if she had any balls .......same sort of logic.


                    Are there some prison diaries from Mrs Maybrick in which it is a matter of opinion whether she refers to her husband as JtR?

                    I don't think so Nemo.
                    My interest stems from the fact that in the line I provided is a reference to a three volume diary from 1889 which implicates James as Jack.
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                    • #11
                      Hi Howard and Nemo

                      The prison diaries of Mrs. Maybrick were rumored to have existed but no one credible has seen them or proven that they existed or might still exist, and nor what what they contained. In her autobiography, My Lost Fifteen Years (1904), Florence of course said nothing about her late husband James being Jack the Ripper though she maintained her innocence and her shock at the way she had been treated. As mentioned on Chris Jones' website http://www.jamesmaybrick.org, after she stopped touring the United States making public appearances, she gradually got into financial difficulties. That might have been an opportunity to spring upon the startled world the revelation that her husband had been Jack the Ripper, but she didn't do it. Instead, she faded away in obscurity in the cottage she had built for herself in Gaylordsville, Connecticut, having resumed her maiden name of Chandler. It was there that she died in 1941.

                      All the best

                      Chris
                      Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
                      https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

                      Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
                      Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks for that Chris

                        Maybe she was doing a Forbes Winslow and writing THE diary after the fact

                        It's not so far fetched when you know Forbes Winslow was connected to her case and I think he was once requested to mentally assess Mrs Maybrick but didn't do so - please correct me on that if I got that wrong Chris

                        Such a diary would have been extremely sought after at the time for publication, so unless she wrote it and kept it completely secret, I doubt she would have been able to keep it from the press

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nemo View Post
                          Thanks for that Chris

                          Maybe she was doing a Forbes Winslow and writing THE diary after the fact

                          It's not so far fetched when you know Forbes Winslow was connected to her case and I think he was once requested to mentally assess Mrs Maybrick but didn't do so - please correct me on that if I got that wrong Chris

                          Such a diary would have been extremely sought after at the time for publication, so unless she wrote it and kept it completely secret, I doubt she would have been able to keep it from the press
                          Hi Nemo

                          This is the first I have heard of any connection between Florence Maybrick and Forbes Winslow, although it hardly surprises me. The man seemed to involve himself in everything, including coming up with multiple contradictory theories about the Whitechapel murders. Chris Jones does not mention Forbes Winslow on his website although I understand he is coming out with an expanded revision of his Maybrick A to Z so maybe there will be something on the alienist in there.

                          All the best

                          Chris
                          Christopher T. George, Lyricist & Co-Author, "Jack the Musical"
                          https://www.facebook.com/JackTheMusical/ Hear sample song at https://tinyurl.com/y8h4envx.

                          Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conferences, April 2016 and 2018.
                          Hear RipperCon 2016 & 2018 talks at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi Chris

                            I'm sure Forbes Winslow officialy spoke out for Mrs Maybrick when he went to America and I believe was considered a champion of her cause (by himself probably)

                            I'll try and find a reference for you

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                            • #15
                              It was a petition campaign Chris

                              Here you go...


                              Atlanta Constitution
                              Georgia, U.S.A.
                              17 June 1894

                              From an article entitled "Future of the race" A great Londoner
                              The importance of Dr. Forbes Winslow is overshadowing. A representative of this paper called upon him at his residence, 33 Devonshire Street, N.W., three weeks ago, and the utterance that followed was made rapidly and enthusiastically. It should be said that almost every criminal case in Great Britain where insanity figures is referred to Dr. Winslow. It was to him that the home secretary turned for an opinion on Mrs. Maybryck's (sic) responsibility when the queen was petitioned to commute her sentence of death, and it was owing to the doctor's answer that the life of the unfortunate woman was spared.


                              From his own "Recollections of Forty Years"...

                              Immediately after her conviction, becoming con-
                              vinced that it was a most unjust verdict, I determined
                              to do my very best to agitate in the matter, and to
                              obtain a reprieve for this lady.

                              On the Qth of August I commenced to agitate in
                              the press on the case, and in a letter of that date I
                              said : " Seldom has a case caused so much public
                              excitement as that of Mrs Maybrick. It is discussed
                              far and wide, and only one opinion appears to exist
                              that she has been convicted on insufficient evidence.
                              The medical experts for the defence have been appar-
                              ently ignored. The jury have posed as moralists and
                              ignored the vital issue as to the poisoning by arsenic."
                              I concluded this letter as follows : " It is the duty



                              LEGAL EXPERIENCES 147

                              of every Englishman to agitate forthwith to save a
                              woman convicted without one tittle of evidence from
                              the hands of the public hangman."

                              Mr MacDougal and myself were most vehement on
                              the matter, and, having worked together in a similar
                              case known as the " Penge mystery," which created
                              nearly as much excitement as the Maybrick case,
                              we decided to adopt a similar plan here. It was
                              stated at the time that the only chance Mrs Maybrick
                              had of a reprieve was in the Queen's deep aversion
                              to the infliction of capital punishment on a woman.
                              Petitions were at once commenced, not only in Liver-
                              pool, but in all parts of the country, to which thousands
                              of signatures were attached, and which were prepared
                              for the then Home Secretary, Mr Matthews. A report
                              was current at the time that the costs of the defence,
                              which amounted to upwards of four thousand pounds,
                              had been paid by Mr Brierley ; also that a jury of
                              matrons had been sworn to decide another issue,
                              which might postpone the execution should the
                              efforts to secure a respite prove ineffectual. It was
                              proved, however, that there was no possible ground
                              for either of these rumours. Her mother visited her
                              on the Saturday subsequent to the trial, and found
                              her in a complete state of collapse, mental and bodily.
                              In addition to the special petition to which I have
                              alluded, the Licensed Victuallers drafted one on their
                              own account, the chief clauses of which were that
                              there was no direct evidence of the administration
                              of arsenic by Mrs Maybrick to her husband

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